• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Shouldn't love and compassion be extended to all sentient beings...

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Empty words to assuage the killer's feelings. I'm sure the animal felt a lot better for having had the blessing.

Your sarcasm is duly noted. I'm not saying that I advocate hunting. I'm saying it can be done with love and compassion.

Are you seriously attempting to speak intelligently about how such a hunter you've never met feels?
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
Vegetarians are not end users for meat consumption.

Of course not, by definition, but then I didn't say that. My reference was to the dairy and egg industries, not the meat industry.

A vegetarian diet contributes to the continuance of animal slaughter. It is part-and-parcel of said industries.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
A vegetarian diet contributes to the continuance of animal slaughter.

As does a vegan who does nothing else actively save not consuming the product and judging those on an internet forum that are consumers of said product.

As I said...
Perhaps such energy would be better directed writing letters to the industries' regulators and actively protesting what happens to male bovine and chicks than it would chastising people who don't even consume meat.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Look, @Secret Chief. I like you. I genuinely do.

But I'm disappointed with what happened in this thread. I saw little difference between what you said here and a Christian preaching the Gospel.

It's great that you're vegan. I respect you for it. But I take exception to anyone belittling or antagonizing another for their practices, dietary or otherwise.

As vegans and vegetarians, we are all aware of the problems in the agricultural industry, but bickering amongst ourselves does little to nothing to fix these problems.
 

VoidCat

Pronouns: he/him/they/them
Criticizing someone's diet, esp. meat eaters, is like "asking to be killed (by them)"; they really don't like you to touch their food habits/"addictions". And also vegans can have food addictions they don't want to give up. Tell a fruitarian to drop fruit and eat grains and vegetables. He might not kill you but probably unfriend you, or don't give you any frubals for a long time:D
Also not everyone can go vegan. A lot of people with disabilities can't. Sometimes it's too expensive, some people are tube fed etc...
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
I don't see what's productive in telling a vegetarian they're contributing to animal slaughter by way of consuming by-products of animals and not the animals themselves.
As someone who followed a vegetarian diet in some ignorance, it may be productive to remove that ignorance.

Perhaps such energy would be better directed writing letters to the industries' regulators and actively protesting what happens to male bovine and chicks

Letters? You jest.

As to protests, I do what I can when I can. As I said, it's probably in vain though.
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
Look, @Secret Chief. I like you. I genuinely do.

But I'm disappointed with what happened in this thread. I saw little difference between what you said here and a Christian preaching the Gospel.

It's great that you're vegan. I respect you for it. But I take exception to anyone belittling or antagonizing another for their practices, dietary or otherwise.

As vegans and vegetarians, we are all aware of the problems in the agricultural industry, but bickering amongst ourselves does little to nothing to fix these problems.
I genuinely like you, just not your clothes. I'm sorry if it came across as belittling or antagonising, that was not my intention. The OP upset me and @ajay0 clearly (to me) has their heart in the right place. My only intention was to try to point out what I wish had been pointed out to me decades ago. Perhaps I should avoid such threads, but I feel intensely passionate about the subject. Now go change that top.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Some things are for a time evidently (Ecclesiastes 3), including tears and pain. I am convinced that the time will come when there will be no more tears and pain... only exquisite delight.
In your view, should we put any of our time in this life toward trying to help others avoid tears and pain? Or do such things in this life not matter to you because you believe there to be "exquisite delight" in a "next life?"
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
There is no reason the industry cannot change from its current state to being a humane industry of dairy and egg producers.
The dairy industry is in no way "humane." In order to get the amounts of milk they desire from the cows, they impregnate them (obviously), and then steal away the calf almost immediately following birth. The calf, if it is female, awaits the same fate as the mother, and if it is male is likely destined to be raised in a cage within which it cannot move in order to be made into veal (which requires that the muscles be under-developed - hence the "no movement" caging) - because males of the dairy cow variety aren't "good" for much else by business standards. The milking cows themselves, within a factory-farming facility, are made to stand, side-by-side in extremely confining spaces, hooked up to machines that milk them dry without regard to any pain they may experience. Things like clots in their milk ducts, or how raw their teats are are very often ignored. Not to mention the workers' treatment of the livestock. There have barely been any videos leaked/captured, because these places are very keen on the outside world not seeing into the methods they use, and in the few videos that have been captured, you can see workers getting agitated at cows who simply do not want to walk forward into the same exact uncomfortable situation they found themselves in yesterday. The cows are pushed, whipped, beaten, prodded, electrocuted - until they move because standing still is even worse than the torture they go through to be milked.

There is really no problem with eggs gathered by natural means on normal farms - the chicken was going to lay the unfertilized eggs anyway. However - in a factory farm setting, when they hatch a new group of chicks to become the next wave of egg-layers, they take all the males and destroy them. This has been witnessed to be done in a few different ways. Bagging them all up and discarding them as they suffocate to death and literally grinding them up in a machine grinder are two I can think of that I have seen. There are even reports that the ground baby chicks have then been used as feed for other animals - even the chickens themselves. Egg laying hens in factory farms aren't kept in the best conditions either. Cramped spaces, fecal matter everywhere, the tips of their beaks cut off or ground down so that they don't peck themselves or each other in the fits of insanity they are likely to go through.

I get that maybe you don't know any of this, and I even get why you wouldn't want to know. Just maybe don't talk about it like you do. You don't, and it really, really shows.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
The dairy industry is in no way "humane." In order to get the amounts of milk they desire from the cows, they impregnate them (obviously), and then steal away the calf almost immediately following birth. The calf, if it is female, awaits the same fate as the mother, and if it is male is likely destined to be raised in a cage within which it cannot move in order to be made into veal (which requires that the muscles be under-developed - hence the "no movement" caging) - because males of the dairy cow variety aren't "good" for much else by business standards. The milking cows themselves, within a factory-farming facility, are made to stand, side-by-side in extremely confining spaces, hooked up to machines that milk them dry without regard to any pain they may experience. Things like clots in their milk ducts, or how raw their teats are are very often ignored. Not to mention the workers' treatment of the livestock. There have barely been any videos leaked/captured, because these places are very keen on the outside world not seeing into the methods they use, and in the few videos that have been captured, you can see workers getting agitated at cows who simply do not want to walk forward into the same exact uncomfortable situation they found themselves in yesterday. The cows are pushed, whipped, beaten, prodded, electrocuted - until they move because standing still is even worse than the torture they go through to be milked.

There is really no problem with eggs gathered by natural means on normal farms - the chicken was going to lay the unfertilized eggs anyway. However - in a factory farm setting, when they hatch a new group of chicks to become the next wave of egg-layers, they take all the males and destroy them. This has been witnessed to be done in a few different ways. Bagging them all up and discarding them as they suffocate to death and literally grinding them up in a machine grinder are two I can think of that I have seen. There are even reports that the ground baby chicks have then been used as feed for other animals - even the chickens themselves. Egg laying hens in factory farms aren't kept in the best conditions either. Cramped spaces, fecal matter everywhere, the tips of their beaks cut off or ground down so that they don't peck themselves or each other in the fits of insanity they are likely to go through.

I get that maybe you don't know any of this, and I even get why you wouldn't want to know. Just maybe don't talk about it like you do. You don't, and it really, really shows.

You clearly misread the statement you quoted. Unfortunately, it resulted in your composing a narrative I'm already aware of. But I'm glad you did, because awareness is the first step in affecting change. Thank you for that.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I agree with what you say. However, what I said was simply factual; I wish someone had made me aware of what I have pointed out years ago.
:D I agree. And if you use the above quote (blue part), you give a safe (I message) and strong message, without actively making them feel uncomfortable. I will remember your words for myself "I wish someone had made me aware of this, years ago".

Diet is always a tricky one to discuss, being loaded with emotions (mothers give sugar sweet if you behave sweet; hence sugar has become one of the biggest addictions, for some hard to get rid off). In Holland it seems that non-meat lifestyle gets promoted much more; there was an abrupt change, starting January first 2020. Suddenly from 1 day on the other the supermarkets tripled their vegetarian assortment AND they started labeling vegetarian foods, so as to make it easier to spot. So, awareness is increasing. But, as it took me many years, it probably will take 2 decades before we see some bigger changes.


Like you. IF I had know before about this, I would have been starting vegetarian life before. The good part is, that, now I am aware that I have killed animals too, I can't blame others for doing so. I ate meat till age 25. So, I say nothing to those below age 25, unless they beg me:D
 
Top