Should we have a Vamachara DIR in here?

[Saint Frankenstein]

Greetings to my Dharmic sisters and brothers.

I'm a Shakta and I'm attuned to the Left-Hand Path (i.e. Vamachara, "left way") current of devotion to the Divine Mother, Whom I perceive as Kali.

Vamachara is a little understood and minority set of philosophies and practices that are quite ancient in origin and are found in both Hinduism (primarily Shaktism and Shaivism) and Buddhism (primarily Mahayana). It is greatly misunderstood both in its native Southeast Asian homelands but especially misunderstood in the West, where the concept of a Left-Hand Path and Right-Hand Path dichotomy in religion has been misappropriated and even further misunderstood. In the West, the LHP is often associated with Satanism, Luciferianism and Setianism. All three of these religions/philosophies tend to label themselves LHP and all three tend to teach and believe things are quite different and don't have much to do with the original Dharmic LHP.

Since I'm technically a member of the Dharmic, Hindu and LHP DIRs by way of how I label myself, I want to share that I don't have much in common with the majority of the people who populate the LHP DIR, even though my religion is actually a manifestation of the original LHP.

I'm not saying this to insult or criticize anyone. I'm just saying that the Eastern Left-Hand Path and the Western Left-Hand Path are two very different things and the younger of the two, the WLHP, has gone in a very different direction.

So, with that in mind, and also with the fact that Vamachara is little understood in the first place, I think it would be a good idea to possibly create a Vamachara DIR under the general Dharmic Religions DIR.

What say you?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Greetings to my Dharmic sisters and brothers.

I'm a Shakta and I'm attuned to the Left-Hand Path (i.e. Vamachara, "left way") current of devotion to the Divine Mother, Whom I perceive as Kali.

Vamachara is a little understood and minority set of philosophies and practices that are quite ancient in origin and are found in both Hinduism (primarily Shaktism and Shaivism) and Buddhism (primarily Mahayana). It is greatly misunderstood both in its native Southeast Asian homelands but especially misunderstood in the West, where the concept of a Left-Hand Path and Right-Hand Path dichotomy in religion has been misappropriated and even further misunderstood. In the West, the LHP is often associated with Satanism, Luciferianism and Setianism. All three of these religions/philosophies tend to label themselves LHP and all three tend to teach and believe things are quite different and don't have much to do with the original Dharmic LHP.

Since I'm technically a member of the Dharmic, Hindu and LHP DIRs by way of how I label myself, I want to share that I don't have much in common with the majority of the people who populate the LHP DIR, even though my religion is actually a manifestation of the original LHP.

I'm not saying this to insult or criticize anyone. I'm just saying that the Eastern Left-Hand Path and the Western Left-Hand Path are two very different things and the younger of the two, the WLHP, has gone in a very different direction.

So, with that in mind, and also with the fact that Vamachara is little understood in the first place, I think it would be a good idea to possibly create a Vamachara DIR under the general Dharmic Religions DIR.

What say you?

May I ask a personal question?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

May I ask a personal question?

You can PM me. This isn't the place for personal questions.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Greetings to my Dharmic sisters and brothers.

I'm a Shakta and I'm attuned to the Left-Hand Path (i.e. Vamachara, "left way") current of devotion to the Divine Mother, Whom I perceive as Kali.

Vamachara is a little understood and minority set of philosophies and practices that are quite ancient in origin and are found in both Hinduism (primarily Shaktism and Shaivism) and Buddhism (primarily Mahayana). It is greatly misunderstood both in its native Southeast Asian homelands but especially misunderstood in the West, where the concept of a Left-Hand Path and Right-Hand Path dichotomy in religion has been misappropriated and even further misunderstood. In the West, the LHP is often associated with Satanism, Luciferianism and Setianism. All three of these religions/philosophies tend to label themselves LHP and all three tend to teach and believe things are quite different and don't have much to do with the original Dharmic LHP.

Since I'm technically a member of the Dharmic, Hindu and LHP DIRs by way of how I label myself, I want to share that I don't have much in common with the majority of the people who populate the LHP DIR, even though my religion is actually a manifestation of the original LHP.

I'm not saying this to insult or criticize anyone. I'm just saying that the Eastern Left-Hand Path and the Western Left-Hand Path are two very different things and the younger of the two, the WLHP, has gone in a very different direction.

So, with that in mind, and also with the fact that Vamachara is little understood in the first place, I think it would be a good idea to possibly create a Vamachara DIR under the general Dharmic Religions DIR.

What say you?

I looked it up. It looks like a LHP religion. Sounds more appropriate under LHP since this is a Dharmic religion?

 

[crossfire]

Greetings to my Dharmic sisters and brothers.

I'm a Shakta and I'm attuned to the Left-Hand Path (i.e. Vamachara, "left way") current of devotion to the Divine Mother, Whom I perceive as Kali.

Vamachara is a little understood and minority set of philosophies and practices that are quite ancient in origin and are found in both Hinduism (primarily Shaktism and Shaivism) and Buddhism (primarily Mahayana). It is greatly misunderstood both in its native Southeast Asian homelands but especially misunderstood in the West, where the concept of a Left-Hand Path and Right-Hand Path dichotomy in religion has been misappropriated and even further misunderstood. In the West, the LHP is often associated with Satanism, Luciferianism and Setianism. All three of these religions/philosophies tend to label themselves LHP and all three tend to teach and believe things are quite different and don't have much to do with the original Dharmic LHP.

Since I'm technically a member of the Dharmic, Hindu and LHP DIRs by way of how I label myself, I want to share that I don't have much in common with the majority of the people who populate the LHP DIR, even though my religion is actually a manifestation of the original LHP.

I'm not saying this to insult or criticize anyone. I'm just saying that the Eastern Left-Hand Path and the Western Left-Hand Path are two very different things and the younger of the two, the WLHP, has gone in a very different direction.

So, with that in mind, and also with the fact that Vamachara is little understood in the first place, I think it would be a good idea to possibly create a Vamachara DIR under the general Dharmic Religions DIR.

What say you?

If you don't identify with the beliefs of the LHP DIR, then treat it as any other DIRs whose beliefs you don't agree with.

There's always the Hinduism DIR and the Asiatic Indigenous Religion DIR.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forums/asian-religions-dir.196/

 

[Aupmanyav]

Vama-marga (LHP) is a valid part of Hinduism as well as Buddhism. But the two ways are basically differently understood. Though a few deities are similarly named - Tara, Bhairava, etc. Whether a new sub-forum is possible or not depends on the administration.

 

[crossfire]

Vama-marga (LHP) is a valid part of Hinduism as well as Buddhism. But the two ways are basically differently understood. Though a few deities are similarly named - Tara, Bhairava, etc. Whether a new sub-forum is possible or not depends on the administration.

He says he's a Shakta, so that would be Hinduism, not vajrayana, right?

 

[Mindmaster]

Can someone move this to debates, or some more appropriate forum? (since it really is a discussion, and there are plenty of non-Dharmic Eastern LHP...)

I basically practice the vamachara philosophy personally, but I do not ascribe to Dharmic dogmatic concepts. (Karma, reincarnation, eta, etc...) I guess I have to ask the question of do you think there are enough Dharmic lefties to even warrant a DIR? I think a great many people who are vamachari who have nothing to do with Dharma at all.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Vama-marga (LHP) is a valid part of Hinduism as well as Buddhism. But the two ways are basically differently understood. Though a few deities are similarly named - Tara, Bhairava, etc. Whether a new sub-forum is possible or not depends on the administration.

How does it identify as a left hand path given its relations to hinduism?

 

[Aupmanyav]

He says he's a Shakta, so that would be Hinduism, not vajrayana, right?

Perhaps Saint Frankenstein wants both to contribute to the proposed forum.

I basically practice the vamachara philosophy personally, but I do not ascribe to Dharmic dogmatic concepts. (Karma, reincarnation, eta, etc...) I guess I have to ask the question of do you think there are enough Dharmic lefties to even warrant a DIR? I think a great many people who are vamachari who have nothing to do with Dharma at all.

Perhaps not the dogma's, but are they 'adharmic'?

How does it identify as a left hand path given its relations to hinduism?

Vama-marga, as I understand it, also is a search for truth, but uses a different methodology.

 

[Mindmaster]

Perhaps not the dogma's, but are they 'adharmic'?

Not really, I think adharmic implies a moral compass, at least in common use, and implies "evil" is being sought after or done. Most vamachara-types are non-dual, in my experience, and see morality as a construction. So they are not seeking to do evil in any sense of the term, but rather just don't embrace the status quo/consensus reality. That might make them evil in the eyes of the mainstream, but they are not seeking evil -- just a certain method of attainment.

 

[DanielR]

I was reading a lot of Kenneth Grant (Typhonian Order). He talks about the Vama Marg a lot. It sounded really cool, didn't know there was a LHP in Hinduism too . But it was about yucky when he talked about the consumation of the kalas of Shakti.

Anyway, I'd love to contribute!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I would like a dedicated Vamachara DIR so that LHP Dharmics, whether Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, etc., can discuss and share from our point of view without having to deal with Satanists and such, and also without our threads getting lost in the fray of the larger DIRs.

No, I don't want this moved to a debate area, because it will just end up being another childish fight. If it's moved, I'll just abandon it.

Also, I think it's rather sad that I'm being told that I should just skip the LHP DIR. It's getting to the point that I don't even want to call myself LHP because the term and meaning has been so profaned by ignorant little brats.

 

[sayak83]

How does it identify as a left hand path given its relations to hinduism?

Frankly I did not know that there existed a Left Hand Path other than in Hinduism and Mahayana Buddhism!
Tantra is a major branch of Hinduism and Buddhism as far as I know.
I do not think we should have DIR's for sub-groups within Hinduism, but there's one for Vedanta, so why not?

 

[Kapalika]

I think the heart of this topic is how much the western oriented LHP has dominated this forum for years in the LHP DIR. If you look at it, it's filled with Satanists and Luciferians and those types of people almost exclusively.

Really though I don't know if there is enough "LHP" Hindus/Buddhists ect to justify a DIR here, but I would really like it if not just to escape the darn headache that most of the people in the LHP DIR are.

But I honestly never saw why such topics couldn't be talked about in any of the other main Dharmic DIRs since you can get a lot more answers from people who while most won't practice whatever path is being talked about, at least know something about it and have something to say.

 

[Chakra]

We don't really have a lot of Dharmics anyway, so it is better to keep everything in one DIR.

 

[Aupmanyav]

@Mindmaster - appreciate your reply. Hindu or Buddhist LHP is not depravity.

.. so that LHP Dharmics, whether Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, etc., can discuss and share from our point of view ..

Perhaps an Indic LHP sub-forum in Left-Hand Path Religions DIR. Very few Hindus practice Vamachara, not main-line. As far as I know, Jains and Sikhs do not have LHP and Vamachara.

@sayak83, Vedanta forum is practically inactive as we are discussing it in the main forum.

 

[crossfire]

Can someone move this to debates, or some more appropriate forum? (since it really is a discussion, and there are plenty of non-Dharmic Eastern LHP...)

I basically practice the vamachara philosophy personally, but I do not ascribe to Dharmic dogmatic concepts. (Karma, reincarnation, eta, etc...) I guess I have to ask the question of do you think there are enough Dharmic lefties to even warrant a DIR? I think a great many people who are vamachari who have nothing to do with Dharma at all.

That is probably a good idea.

 

[Osal]

How many people will be participating? Theres already too many Buddhist DIRs.

 

[crossfire]

How many people will be participating? Theres already too many Buddhist DIRs.

We already have a Vajrayana Buddhism DIR, in other words.