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Should we believe the experts or the politicians regarding climate change?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Notanumber, Aug 18, 2019.

  1. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Could have already started when it was nipped in the bud.
    You old enough to remember the Global Freezing Campaign
    of the late 1970's?
    That cold spell started just when Hitler was about to take
    Moscow. And what caused it? The liars told us it was
    caused by Globalization, US Imperialism, Corporatism
    and greed. No-one mentioned the Jews.
     
  2. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

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    Pathological and toxicological findings in glyphosate-surfactant herbicide fatality: a case report. - PubMed - NCBI

    But at any rate, human activity contributes to climate change (which has negative effects) as well as dangerous pollution.
     
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  3. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

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    I don't dismiss him out of hand, but I am skeptical of his claims considering he has been an industry consultant and his claims don't appear to take important considerations into account (from what I've seen).
     
  4. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Throughout earth's history carbon dioxide(ppm) has been as low as 180(quaternary glaciation) and as high as 4000(cambrian). Life survived.
    I wonder if we know the upper and lower limits for our(humans) survival.
     
  5. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Look... we don't need experts to tell us the world is getting hotter.
    And the prime suspect is ourselves.
    The real issue is how we manage these changes - even if we
    stopped all CO2 emission immediately the fact remains there
    is enough of the stuff already up there to keep warming the
    planet.
     
  6. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    According to the doctor, 150ppm is lower limit for plant life.

    Could any animals survive without plants?
     
  7. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Watch the video I posted in #58; it debunks Moore on numerous occasions.
     
  8. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    According to the doctor, it is 400ppm at present.
     
  9. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    As if you'll find me promoting the expertise of politicians on scientific issues.

    Ok, that some level of CO2 is necessary doesn't mean that high CO2 levels must therefore be benign.
     
  10. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    Unlike you, I will watch your video but I’m off swimming now.
     
  11. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Life would survive.

    Man can't destroy earth or life. Man may destroy himself but earth and life were here before man and earth and life will be here after man.
     
  12. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    How hot is the earth now?
     
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  13. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

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    My mother still talks of the summer of 72, one of the longest hot spells on record.

    But conspiracy theories abound, perhaps that cold spell was the first indications of climate change
     
  14. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    I just wish they would put forth real evidence instead of theoretical models all the time.

    One of the posters here in the past, I forgot whos was name it was, I'm sorry.

    But anyways had pointed out a particular type of carbon molecule that only came from man-made sources and not natural sources that can be taken from the air. Also the science behind CO2 buildups were you can actually measure the leaves of plants to determine how pervasive CO2 is in the air.

    You're not going to convince a lot of people with loads and loads of theoretical and predictive modeling, it deservingly comes across as disingenuous, agenda motivated, and intellectually lazy. It doesn't convince me and it shouldn't convince anybody else.

    Working Science is much more demonstrable and direct. Something people can see for themselves.
     
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  15. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Maybe we will find out soon enough

    Hi levels of co2 in humans causes hallucinations. Think the oracle at Delphi. I have a hypothesis that the same effect occurs in the bible belt of the US. There is much industry and major cities both coasts. Prevailing winds carries pollutants inland. It rains causing acid rainfall. So far this is known. My hypothesis is that the limestone bedrock (which almost exactly mirrors the bible belt) gasses co2 causing hallucinations.
     
  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    There is plenty of "real evidence" out there. But you need the models. The models tell us what will happen if we don't change.

    Now if you want to know how they know that the increase in carbon is man made that is easily explained. That is based upon directly observable science and and is not based upon models.
     
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  17. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    If they don't explain the science involved behind the modeling then it's completely worthless. Just throwing a chart out there and saying, "I'm the expert believe me" is not exactly going to win any awards.

    And yeah definitely explain the science. People want to know what was done behind the scenes.
     
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  18. Pete in Panama

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    Too many people pervert the phrase "observable science" away from the idea of a tool for inquiry and use it as a foundation of a belief system; examples:
    • "I don't believe in God I believe in observable science."
    • "Observable science tells us to raise taxes to save the planet."
    Nobody has observed scientifically men (or women for that matter) creating carbon atoms to the point that an average atmospheric incease in carbon is measurable. It's a tenet of belief just like deciding that the average temp. of the globe has increased 1.5C since 1760 even though there're no measurements of the average global temperature for today and for any day in 1760.

    The average surface temp. of the sun has been observed w/ an accuracy to four significant figures. Observing that of the earth is prevented by politics.
     
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  19. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry Verisimilitudinous

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    What evidence have you looked at that has been out forth?


    Evidence | Facts – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

    Snap.

    Ditto on the NASA link above.
     
  20. Pete in Panama

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    --although it can get a few "likes" on this thread. Believing and following an honored leader is what we do in a religion. Science is where we measure, report, argue, and let others repeat the measurements.
     
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