Should We Argue with Psychotic People?

[dybmh]

If you're talking about what happened between us in the distant past, it's cool. I'm not exactly the same person as then 100%. So if you ever feel the need to PM me about anything, I won't feel triggered about it.

If you mean something now, I haven't been paying attention to problems or the lack thereof. So I wouldn't know.

Yup... it's the stuff in the distant past. I have a hard time letting go of the past.

 

[dybmh]

Seems to be a common malady among RFers. Wonder to what extent we post because we can't sleep, or visa versa.

There's a fascinating podcast out there; I've been slowly carving through it because it is dense on science and the interviewee is a very fast talker.

I mention it because my wife and I have been calling it "THE" sleep podcast. It's about an hour and half, maybe 2 and a half hours long. But from what I can tell it has all the latest greatest science on sleep in one place.

I recall that many people on RF report sleep problems, and because of that I have considered going thru the podcast, ripping out all the best most interesting references to published science on the subject and posting it somewhere here on RF for discussion.

However, I would like to point out something that I found very applicable especially to me regarding avoidance. And it fits in nicely with your observation quoted above.

In the podcast, the concept is introduced of a personal space bubble. I don't remember the precise wording that was used. But the idea is, that when people are sleep deprived, their natural comfort zone, their bubble of personal space that is perceived as comfortable increases. People withdraw when they are sleep deprived.

If so, it;s perfectly natural for people like me and others who are sleep deprived to find it much more comfortable to be social online. I'm a full on extrovert. But lately... I am so so introverted...

Just some thoughts... slightly off-topic, but that seems to be in fashion lately

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

A couple of disclaimers to start:

1) I'm using the word psychotic clinically, not just casually as we sometimes do in English. Psychosis is an umbrella term for mental disorders where a person has difficulty distinguishing what's real from what's not. There's a difference between just being wrong about something, and actually being psychotic. Please, no trolling or cheap potshots in this thread, e.g. "Yea, all Democraps are psychotic! Har har!"

Psychosis: Symptoms, Causes, and Risk Factors

2) As someone who works in healthcare and has specifically worked in the mental health field, I have great sympathy and respect for people who struggle with mental illnesses, including psychotic disorders. Also, I know from experience that with treatment, many of these folks can lead healthy, productive, fulfilled lives and can be quite intelligent. For purposes of this thread, I'm talking specifically about folks who are untreated and/or actively psychotic.

With that said:

There are a few folks on RF who, in my unlicensed lay opinion, I believe strongly are actively psychotic. I come to this conclusion from the sorts of bizarre things they post and occasionally because they even admit from time to time to prior diagnoses, encounters with the mental health system, etc. Psychotic people often have religiously-themed hallucinations and delusions, so it's not surprising that folks in this condition would be attracted to the relative safety and anonymity of posting their thoughts to a religiously themed Internet forum.

I also notice that other posters at RF will engage and try to debate with these folks. It worries me that this is an ineffective and possibly counter-productive strategy for addressing people in this condition, as it may feed paranoid delusions of persecution, delusions of grandeur, etc. At the same time, I'm also not sure how effective it would be to say, "You seriously need help, see a psychiatrist ASAP." So my personal strategy when seeing posts/threads by these folks has just been to ignore them and avoid fueling the fire.

What do you think? What is the best/most helpful approach with these folks? Should we try to reason with them? Should we tell them to seek help?

No. Just report those people and their threads to staff. They know it happens. There's nothing wrong with wishing them well and telling them to get help. But don't bother arguing with them about whatever they're posting. That's a waste of time. RF attracts a lot of people having psychotic breaks. You can't argue logic with someone who is having a break with reality. That's not what they do in psych wards, they medicate them - forcibly if need be.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

All fine points. That said, if someone tells me they've been diagnosed with a mental disorder, my inclination is going to be to believe them unless they've given me reason to think they're lying, especially if their behavior conforms to that diagnosis.

The internet is pretty tricky, because people do self diagnose. But, it does sometimes come out in additional posts.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I did want to state that it's not that I think I'm in 100% mental health in every way, and not in need of a little medicine and the occasional psychiatrist visit to stay more like a well oiled machine - it's just, in the old days, it just seemed risky to diagnose people based on little evidence and evaluation like they seemed to be doing with me in the past.

Anyways, I'm really not sure how actual RF members will be equipped to handle extreme situations, but as far as I go, I think this forum has done great with me, and in the following ways:

-They don't ignore me on purpose

-They've helped me get over bigoted ideas at the back of my mind

-They've helped me clear my mind of most superstition

-They occasionally help me fact-check

-They haven't dealt harshly with my frequent Journal posts as part of me keeping my nerves relaxed

And I did try to seek other methods of helping myself in these areas, from professional medical people, but they weren't able to help me the whole way through. I'm not trying to compare RF to professional medical people, but there comes certain facets where it's difficult for the professional medical people to help you, much like there are many more facets best left up to doctors and not RF.

So I don't want to become an RF addict, but I do sometimes consider posting, and the fact members have been kind to me, as being kind of like one of those plastic toy thingies you squeeze in your hand to relieve stress.

So to a certain extent, I think the majority of RF can kind of figure out mild problem-solving when it comes to responding to difficult threads. Most of the time, maybe not always.

 

[dybmh]

I'm really not sure how actual RF members will be equipped to handle extreme situations

I'll tell you what I did in a very recent situation. I used the report button and I did not respond to the post or the thread until I felt that the temper of the discussion had "cooled" off a bit.

So, we are equipped with a "report" button. Personal restraint, and a capable staff ( of volunteers G-d bless them ).

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Please don't. That would mean you'd have to not have any conversations with me.

While you may have your own thoughts on this, I have not found that you've posted anything that looked like you're not in control of your own thoughts. You may have problems -- we all do -- but you seem to be in command of them, overall.