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Featured Should the Hindus Be Judged For Rejecting Brahma?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by wizanda, Sep 22, 2019.

  1. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    I meant 3. Darn phone

    Even if we were to tell people, don’t touch the stove, they’d do it anyway. People are notorious for ignoring simple instructions. I mean look at Adam and Eve. They had one job!!!

    Snark aside, to presume to speak to another person as a sort of “teacher” is to give into hubris.
    We may debate, discuss even argue heatedly. But to judge, warn or even set limits for others is nothing but arrogance on display for all to see.
    It also makes you look like a twat to others.
    By all means debate someone, but if you both agree to disagree, the world won’t end.
     
  2. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA ~ ~
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    Acc. to the purANs, Brahman, in the form of VishNu-NArAyaN, created BrahmA thru' the Lotus emerging from His nAbhI - Centre, asked BrahmA to perform tapas, then imparted wisdom densly packed in 4 verses well-known as "Chatuh-shloki BhAgvat" to help with creation without ego. "Now create"

    Of Course, it is Brahman who became VishNu, who gave rise to BrahmA who gave rise to 11 Rudra, and the rest. So it is One Self.

    So, the way Hindus see it, the avatArs of VishNu are VishNu, although they took up PrakRuti and manifested on earth, therefore allowed BrahmA to "create" the divine-human bodies, with Shakti.

    Rather that them being BrahmA's 'Divine Council' in Satyalok, we see them as VishNu Himself who, upon request from BrahmA and the devas, agrees to appear on earth whenever adharma increases - because that is what He does out of compassion for His creation. yadA yadA hi dharmasya.

    Did the Elohim include Hayagreeva, Narsimha, VarAha, Rama , Krishna?
    The Complete List of 24 Avatars of Lord Vishnu

    Another thing is that VishNu has 24 celestial forms in VaikunTha, that each has a name based on 24 permutations of shankha chakra gadA padma in the 4 hands (conch, sudarshan discus, mace, Lotus flower).
    Keshav, NArAyaN, MAdhav, Govind, VishNu, MadhusUdan, Trivikram, VAman, Shridhar, Hrishikesh, PadmanAbh, DAmodar, SankarshaN, VAsudev, Pradyumna, Aniruddha, Purushottam, Adhokshaja, Achyuta, Narsimha, Upendra, JanArdan, Hari, KrishNa

    Are you refering to these?


    Then that makes El = VishNu technically? who is essentially Brahman' taking on the Shuddha-Sattva role to create BrahmA.
    Even otherwise. Hinduism is about worshiping Brahman' as the inner-Self of one's IshTaDev.

    Somewhere along , the RajoguNa of BrahmA made Him perform a jealousy leelA ? From link above-

    Either way, I hope your efforts bear fruit, hope the fundamentalist Christians wake up and stop telling Hindus that they are going to hell for worshiping the father of the Bible-YHWH.
    There are Christians making You Tube videos saying VishNu, Lakshmi, and the 4-headed BrahmA as well (YHWH), are "angels of Satan"
    How very sad and ironic.

    :) I like the bee --- one of DattAtreya's 24 'teachers from nature' (BhAgvat Mahapuran)
     
    #22 ameyAtmA, Sep 22, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
  3. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    If we've learned things from experience of a higher Source, and then people ignore it; the ones with hubris are the ones who react with ego, to being shown they're not paying attention to what is instructed properly...

    If said instruction declares they will be destroyed for ignoring it as well, it is logical to want to share it out of kindness, not hubris.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  4. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA ~ ~
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    Brahma-Dev takes on RajoguNa for creation, but He is revered, is the pitA of sages, keeper of Vedas, embodiment of tapas (austerity), and is revered thru' the Brahman'-GAyatri alongside VishNu and Shiva

    om bhur bhuva svah |
    tat savitR vareNyaM |
    bhargo devasya dheemahI |
    dheeyo yo nah: prachodayAt ||
     
    #24 ameyAtmA, Sep 22, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
  5. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    That 24 names are metaphors of aspects of the Divine, the same as the authors of the religious texts are 24 in Jainism, there are 24 Elders in Revelation, etc...

    Basically there are 24 Beings who Surround the Source, and are the beings that have interacted with mankind.
    El = Brahman = Allah = Ahura Mazda

    Elohim = Brahma/Vishnu/Shiva = Archangels
    If the name J+Sus is a swear word meaning 'shall be a beast'.

    It is all ironic somewhere, most people are doing things unconsciously causing them to be adharmic - it is the Maya, muddling things upside down.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
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  6. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Advocate of letting go of theism. Buddhist with an emphasis on personal understanding.
    Myself, I adopt a simpler explanation.

    That may well be your intent. I stand unconvinced.

    Why not?
     
  7. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Because the moment we take a side, there is always a middle line that is more logical somewhere.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  8. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    If you think you’re the one to teach someone the “right way” you’re the one acting out of hubris.
     
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  9. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan In Hell I’ll Be In Good Company
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    Lord Brahmā is not the creator of the universe. He creates the material world in an already existing universe. The Rig Veda says no one knows who or what created the universe.

    Nasadiya Sukta.

    6. But, after all, who knows, and who can say
    Whence it all came, and how creation happened?
    the gods themselves are later than creation,
    so who knows truly whence it has arisen?

    7. Whence all creation had its origin,
    the creator, whether he fashioned it or whether he did not,
    the creator, who surveys it all from highest heaven,
    he knows — or maybe even he does not know.
     
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  10. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    How, so someone like Krishna, Yeshua, Buddha, is acting out of hubris?

    Why are we following religious texts then? :confused:

    Surely the point in the texts is to try to lead us the right way, and if someone is helping point to the textual understandings, then that is the same as education...

    Thus is the teacher acting out of hubris assuming they can teach? o_O

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  11. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Hadn't said he was, the Bible doesn't either, we have the reality existing already in Genesis 1; Yahavah just forms the earth...

    Yahavah is Most High King over the earth (Psalms 47:2, Psalms 83:18, Psalms 97:9), and David defines multiple Psalms where El Elyon (God Most High) is greater 'and' a unique aspect of the divine (2 Samuel 22:14 & Psalms 18:13 + Psalms 21:7 + Psalms 50:14 + Psalms 78:35 + Psalms 92:1).

    Yeshua Elohim tried to correct the Jews back to the father (El Elyon), and they didn't understand what that meant, as they've muddled the language.

    Isaiah 46:9 prophesied they'd do it, 'El (Source) is not like the Elohim (Devine Beings)'.

    So when Yahavah Elohim created the earth, many don't realize there is the God Most High (El Elyon) above him.
    As far as I've seen, the Most High is the Source that sustains our reality at a quantum level; like a CPU in an infinite threaded computer system - where it comes from is debatable.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    #31 wizanda, Sep 22, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
  12. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA ~ ~
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    Pure Being with infinite potential in seed form = ParaBrahman'.
    Fundamental existence, awareness, consciousness Fundamental intelligence (simplest to complex), the bliss of exceptionally peaceful deep samAdhI => Love.

    The tetra-trillion multithreaded algorithm is woven by the "Nature of ParaBrahman'" (after sahasra yuga of Natural DhArmic Planning on top of fundamental inherent Dharma until there is not much to learn ? This is why MahA-VishNu lies in the ksheersAgar for sahasra yuga before 'a' BrahmA is born? One per universe/galaxy/cluster , and each BrahmA meditates for another long period for the preparatory natural dhArmic learning ?)
    Nature of X = X's prakRuti. Just like a person's "prakRuti" (inherent nature) is to ne thin or fat or adventurous or not)

    Although it is founded on the most fundamental quantum principles (hypothetically envisioned as 0,1 or in-between), and then layers of process complexity built on it, One's nature is one's nature.
    We do not create our nature. It is our nature to breathe. We do not create prANa, prANa is in our nature.
    Similarly, ParaBrahman's nature is what it is. ParaBrahman' did not create it. It is natural for ParaBrahman' to have SuperTime, SuperSpace and quantum-PrakRut as its natural properties, its "nature"

    VedAnta (Upanishads) and BhAgvat MahAPurAN say that Brahman created the universe out of itself just as a spider spins a web out of itself, without any 3rd party raw material. So the potential-web is in the spider in seed form.

    Since nothing created the deeply-peacefulest fundamentalest consciousness called ParaBrahman', densely packed with the elements to project a universe in seed form *SuperTime, SuperSpace, intelligence, Will, patience, qualities, Energy, properties, ),, ParaBrahman' is anAdi, without beginning and without any further Source. Gravity, electromagnetism , light , heat are observed secondary properties of the most fundamental.

    ParaBrahman' = Pure Being with infinite potential. No one can take that from ParaBrahman; and Pure Being cannot be created by anyone, nor its potential and potency in seed form can be given by any 3rd party.


    Shri KRshNa Govinda Hare MurAre ~
    he nAtha nArAyaNa vAsudeva ~
     
    #32 ameyAtmA, Sep 23, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
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  13. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    Jehovah can be compared to Brahman or Om in Hinduism, Ik Onkar in Sikhism, or the incorporeal God Shiva Baba in the Dharmic monotheistic sect Prajapita Brahmakumaris. Brahma is just one of the trinity of gods and is considered subservient to Brahman or Shiva Baba in Hinduism and Prajapita Brahmakumaris respectively.
     
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  14. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    Yes the teacher is acting out of hubris. All teachers have to have some hubris to be decent teachers though.
    Everyone follows the texts. But they are mere tools. We don’t rely on them. We rely on ourselves and our innate connection with the one supreme. One can choose to follow a teacher if one so desires, of course.
     
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  15. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan In Hell I’ll Be In Good Company
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    I’d say Saguna Brahman, or even more likely to Īśvara, if any comparison could be made.
     
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  16. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    This is where religiously we should study all religious contexts, and not assume, else we commit crimes within them...

    If the Bible says Yahavah is the son of Brahman (God Most High/El Elyon - Psalms 89:6, Psalms 29:1), and then someone makes Yahavah into Brahman, as they've not really studied the texts...

    This is where they get condemned by the Dharma, as it already told us not to worship idols; yet to recognize the Source (El/Brahman) is beyond form is the 2nd commandment (Deuteronomy 5:7-9).

    According to the Curse of Moses in Deuteronomy 32:7-18 the Jews were cut off for no longer acknowledging the Source (EL), and for rejecting their Divine Being's (Eloh) instruction.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  17. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan In Hell I’ll Be In Good Company
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    That Brahman would have any offspring is a total, complete, profound and abysmal misunderstanding of what Brahman is, and a cultural and theological misappropriation. It's New Age codswallop that ranks right up there with opening one's "shockras".
     
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  18. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    It almost appears from the tones in your post, that you're not getting I've been sent from Heaven to be on everyone's side; I don't even have a religion from texts, mine comes from the code I've been shown, so explaining your text is for your benefits before Satya Yuga.
    In computer code when something is a parent, it is not that it is a biological child; sorry for communicating it from IT like you would get what I was meaning without explaining.

    In ancient theology the Elohim were referred to as Sons of the Source, only certain polytheistic religions would make them genealogically connected; rather than it all being metaphors for us to understand much more advanced concepts - same with what I just explained.

    Brahma is a creation from Brahman, Yahavah is a creation from El, Archangels are a creation from God.

    It still applies even tho you're trying to debunk the logic stated, that you've just tried to correct Yahavah Elohim into the God Most High (El Elyon), as you're not studying the contexts, and are assuming the Jews & Christians have it right; when the Bible tells us they've both been purposely misled for not paying attention to some of this context (Deuteronomy 32:7-18).

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  19. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan In Hell I’ll Be In Good Company
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    Well, in the interest of fairness and to be perfectly frank, being associated with truth and honesty, endeavoring to be as forthright as possible...

    No, I don't believe it.

    God is not a computer. And I am an IT systems analyst and systems administrator.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Yes, I was aware, and why apologized for not defining the statement.
    This is also an expected response, it says this will happen in the religious texts before Satya Yuga.
    If we can show that the periodic table is all mathematically equatable, thus a matrix, and that everything we are looking at is made of maths.

    The physics in reality is mathematically understandable.

    The snail shell, thumb print, the wave in the ocean, and a galaxy spiral are all Fibonacci sequences, thus we can show that there is a central Source to the coding structure of our reality.

    Our computers are limited, yet do have potential similes with our Matrix reality, and the more we understand it, the more theology is much easier to explain.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
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