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Should the Boys Scouts and Girl Scouts be allowed to exist

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by bobhikes, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. bobhikes

    bobhikes AntiRepublican
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    I have been reading Some female philospher's and it has made me think a little more about some seemingly normal things.

    For example when I am flustered I may go out and take a walk through town to collect my thoughts and usually am undisturbed. Is it the same for women.

    Now to the thread.

    Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts which seprate boys and girls at 5 years age and puts them through training. In this day and age should they still exist.

    Every meeting 5 times a month the Boy Scouts must say there Oath and Scout law and the Girl Scouts must say the Promise and Scout law.

    Boy Scout Oath
    On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout law to help other people at all times to keep myself physically strong mentally awake and morally straight.

    Girl Scout Promise
    On my honor I will try to serve God and my country to help people at all times and to live by the Girl Scout Law.

    Do you see the difference

    Boy Scout Law
    A Scout is trustworth, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.

    Girl Scout Law
    I will do my best to be honest and fair, friendly and helpful, considerate and caring, courageous and strong and responsible for what I say and do and to respect myself and others, respect authority use resources wisely make the world a better place and be a sister to every Girl Scout.

    Still a difference.

    I was a Cub Scout leader and some of my parents were in Girls Scouts as well Both Groups have to get similar patches.

    Building patch Boys, Bird House and similar Girls Jewerly Box and similar
    Sewing patch Boys, Leather wallet, Leather Satchel etc. Girls, Pillow, Doll Clothes etc.

    In my opinion this is wrong. At 5 years old we are already gender discriminating. It should just be the Scouts. They should say and be able to do the same things. Why are we separating boys and girls at 5 years and teaching different principles and idea's. What are your thoughts?
     
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  2. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Yes.
    This answer is the result of answering another question.
    Should we have the power to prevent their existence? No.
     
  3. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    FYI - here in Canada, Scouts is open to both boys and girls.
     
  4. bobhikes

    bobhikes AntiRepublican
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    I agree we can't prevent their existance but can initiate changes; whereas, they are no longer needed. Isn't this Gender issue a problem and shouldn't we be doing something about it like Canada for instance where apparently they are already mixed.

    The US is supposedly a first world country that seems to be trapped in the 1800's when it comes to men and women issues.
     
  5. technomage

    technomage Finding my own way

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    Males and females are equal ... but they are not the same. Why should we pretend they are the same?
     
  6. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    People are welcome to start organizations which mix genders. And yet, the Scouts exist with such separation, & people continue to join them. So long as everyone is doing what they individually want, I see no reason to interfere. 'Progressives' will have their own utopian preferences, but they must get over the fact that other people will conduct their affairs differently.
     
  7. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I think it's a mistake to assume that there's no overlap between people in the Scouting organization and progressives. There are quite a few people in the organization who are advocating change from within... though AFAIK, the issue of LGBT Scouts and leaders is currently a bigger issue than that of opening up "Boy Scouts" to both genders.
     
  8. bobhikes

    bobhikes AntiRepublican
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    I never said anything about pretending there the same. Boys are not all the same and Girls are not all the same. In fact no single individual is the same as the other but I shouldn't deny a person the right to choose.

    In my opinion the kids are being forced to play out ideaologies from the cave man days. They are not being allowed to choose.
     
  9. bobhikes

    bobhikes AntiRepublican
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    Yeah, but the problem is support. The religions support these clubs and a lot of big money does as well. The schools support them.

    The 4 H club is a valuable club for kids as well and mixed. The closest location I had to my house is an hour away. There were 2 Cub scout troops in my town. They do provide benefitial education to my sons and I can hopefully counter the negatives but I want to do more now.
     
  10. technomage

    technomage Finding my own way

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    Yet you want to treat them as though they are the same, by removing the option for them to be in different organizations?
     
  11. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    I must agree with Revoltingest here.

    We may well want to voice our concerns, but ultimately people should be free to join such organizations unless something actually wrong with them is demonstrated to exist.

    And for what it is worth, in Brazil too girls are allowed to join the "Boy" Scouts and have been for a long time.

    Our local names for the groups do not include gender indicators, either. It is the "Escoteiros" and the "Bandeirantes" as opposed to Boy/Girl Scouts. "Escoteiros" is a fairly direct adaptation of "Scouts", while "Bandeirantes" derives from the word for flag or banner and might be loosely translated as meaning "Banner carriers".
     
  12. bobhikes

    bobhikes AntiRepublican
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    The organizations themselves are limiting the choices.
     
  13. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    All organizations will limit choices to some degree. People must decide whether they do so to an acceptable extent.
     
  14. bobhikes

    bobhikes AntiRepublican
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    Yes it seems however with Gender selections we a comfortable with the current setup. Boys have to be this way and Girls have to be this. We are so comfortable we don't even see the harm we are doing.

    I'll be honest it is an eye opener reading some Female philosophical writing. There is so much we are doing to insure the (Dominate Male)/(Submissive Female) gender divide that even if we started correcting things today, it would be generations before it was fixed.

    This is my start I am spreading one seed(ok this is my second) hopefully something grows.
     
  15. technomage

    technomage Finding my own way

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    Nope. The organizations are not monopolies, nor are children who are interested in scouting required to join one of these two organization.

    There are other options that allow for coeducational scouting and youth activities. Some parents, and some children, choose to join single-gender organization. That is their choice ... and who are we to preclude that choice?
     
  16. bobhikes

    bobhikes AntiRepublican
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    In my area there is no other option for coeducational scouting. Some parents have talked about forming a group. There is 4 h and some other organizations nearby but they are not scouting. There is no overnight camping and outdoors training. I would be interested in a national or local scouting organization that is Coed if you can name one.
     
  17. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    No boy is the same as other boys, and no girl is the same as other girls. If an organization wants to properly serve a wide spectrum of boys, then it already has to deal with a huge degree of diversity. The differences between boys and girls aren't as significant as the differences across the whole spectrum of boys.

    The Scouting movement makes a point of being for everyone (or every boy, in certain countries) regardless of religion, cultural background, income, social class, experience with the outdoors, physical limitations, etc., etc. Diversity of gender is just one more factor in a movement that's *all about* accommodating and embracing diversity.

    It's not about treating boys and girls the same. It's about treating EVERYONE as unique individuals.
     
  18. technomage

    technomage Finding my own way

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    The Navigators and Spiral Scouts (secular, but associated with a Neopagan organization) are two organizations I'm familiar with. A quick search on Wikipedia found this: Independent Scout and Scout-like organizations in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  19. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Ov Fire and the Void
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    The issue is enforced gender roles which are socio-cultural constructs.
     
  20. technomage

    technomage Finding my own way

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    Egalitarianism is also a socio-cultural construct.
     
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