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Should Sterilisation be a Right?

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Erebus, Aug 18, 2022.

  1. Erebus

    Erebus Well-Known Member

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    To start with a little background, both male and female sterilisation procedures are available through the NHS in the UK. However, sterilisation isn't considered a right and doctors are able to decide whether or not a person can be sterilised.

    A few years back, British newspapers picked up the story of a woman named Holly Brockwell who had been denied sterilisation for four years. She was 26 when she first asked for the procedure and doctors told her she was too young to make such a permanent decision:

    Why can’t I get sterilised in my 20s? | Holly Brockwell

    Holly eventually managed to get sterilised at age 30. It's perhaps worth pointing out here that the age of consent for sex in the UK is 16. Despite a stigma associated with teenage pregnancy, you're still deemed old enough to make the decision to have children long before you're deemed old enough to make the decision not to have children.


    So my question to RFers:

    Should people have the right to sterilisation?
     
  2. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Here we have a NHS too...and no physician has a say on this procedure.
    The patient who has reached the age of consent can take the decision.
     
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  3. VoidCat

    VoidCat Pronouns: they/them/their thon/thons/thonself

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    If you old enough to make the decision to have kids(as in you reached the age of consent) you are old enough to decide not to have kids.(That being said the age of consent shouldnt be 16 but 18 yet that's another discussion for another time). Both having kids and sterilization are permanent decisions. Irreversible. Can someone regret sterilzation? Sure. You know what else many people regret that they can't reverse? Yep having kids. Also it's easy for a man to be sterilized its women who tend to face this issue here in the US of not being able to be sterilized.

    Edited to add more info
     
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  4. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Here in the US, we want to punish the hussies by making them give birth to their unwanted ******* children, not sterilize them. But you lot generally seem a bit more forgiving. So it seems odd to me that you deny women a right to choose such a procedure.

    Can you have sex change procedures? If so, I see no reason to deny sterilization. And what does the age of 30 have to do with anything? Is it about that mythical biological alarm clock women are supposed to have?

    I wonder if there really is a degree of remorse from women later on after they become sterilized? Maybe that's why doctors want them to wait.
     
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  5. VoidCat

    VoidCat Pronouns: they/them/their thon/thons/thonself

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    I'll add there does need to be rules in place for sterilization. Only people who want it or need it for medically emergency should get it. It's still legal in many states tho such laws aren't often acted on to sterilize someone against their will. We do not want a repeat of the American eugenics movement where folk were sterilized against their will cuz they were considered "degenerate". I would've likely had I lived during that movement been sterilized against my will cuz of my disabilities.

    Edit
    Europe and many other places also had their own eugenics movement(both during and before Hitler). Even if im guessing many countries don't have anymore laws talking of mandatory sterilization, we should learn from history and not repeat it.



    There was a worldwide pandemic that kicked started a eugenics movement in the past decades ago. I see parallels today. Let us not repeat the past.
     
    #5 VoidCat, Aug 18, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2022
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  6. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Yes.

    If they are legal old enough to have children then they should be legally old enough to chose not to have children
     
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  7. Erebus

    Erebus Well-Known Member

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    You can have sex reassignment surgery through the NHS in the UK but my understanding is that doctors can make people go through various forms of therapy before they can have it done. I knew a transgender woman at university who had to wait several years before having surgery. This was a few years back so I don't know whether or not they're more lenient now.

    When it comes to sterilisation, there's a fear that people will change their minds later in life. So doctors will consider both a person's age and whether or not they currently have children. I'm not sure why 30+ is viewed as the age at which a person is mature enough to decide they never want children.

    Doctors can deny sterilisation for both men and women based on that perception. I suspect it would probably be easier for a man to get sterilised but I don't have data to back up that suspicion.
     
  8. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    A vasectomy is much less invasive, safer and does not need general anaesthetic compared to having falopian tubes tied off.

    Both can possibly be reversed though undoing a female sterilisation is more successful.
     
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  9. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Leaderless Animal

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    ^
    This.
     
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  10. Erebus

    Erebus Well-Known Member

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    This is certainly useful to know. With that in mind, I could see instances in which a doctor might reasonably deny somebody sterilisation due to medical concerns (general anaesthetic can be dangerous for some people) though that should be the exception rather than the rule. It seems that by far the most common reason given for denying somebody sterilisation is that they might want children later.

    *Edit*

    Actually, should a doctor have the right to refuse to sterilise somebody if it poses a risk to their life? We have the right in the UK to refuse life-saving treatment.
     
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  11. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    I first asked for a vasectomy when I was 22 and was denied because I was 'too young and didn't have children'. This was in central Kansas.

    I moved to the Chicago area and got a vasectomy when I was 23. It was local anesthesia and I watched the whole procedure.

    The place that I had it done specialized in vasectomies. They sold a T-shirt with the saying:

    'Sunkist: all juice, no seed'.

    While vasectomies can be reversed, the process is invasive and not guaranteed. The microsurgery to reattach the vas deferens is very delicate and if the muscles around it have atrophied, the chances of success are lessened.
     
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  12. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    In answer to the OP:

    Yes, it should be a right for any adult to be voluntarily sterilized.
     
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  13. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    All operations come with risk, when the risk is to high the doctor has a serious decision to make
     
  14. VoidCat

    VoidCat Pronouns: they/them/their thon/thons/thonself

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    I stand corrected. I made assumptions based on what I've heard and those assumptions were wrong.

    I do wonder if men have an easier time tho I don't know tho.
     
  15. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    I'm not sure either. A lot depends on the doctor you get. If they have the 'you aren't a real man unless you have children' sort, then you might have difficulty.

    The operation itself is easier for men, but so many male doctors are 'protective' of male gonads that it is a real problem.
     
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  16. Reyn

    Reyn The Hungry Abyss

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    If you can sex reassign, you can opt for sterilization. Least, that is how I see it. Make 25 the legal age of consent and allow fully bodily autonomy, including sterilization.
     
  17. Erebus

    Erebus Well-Known Member

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    It's certainly a tricky issue.

    On the one hand, "there's a significant risk that this procedure could kill you" is a far more compelling reason to deny somebody sterilisation than the much more common, "you might want children some day." On the other hand though, for a person to have bodily autonomy they also need the ability to do things that risk harming or even killing them.

    I'm a bit hesitant to follow this line of thinking too far in this thread as it could quickly lead into a debate on the right to die. It's definitely an issue worthy of consideration though.
     
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  18. VoidCat

    VoidCat Pronouns: they/them/their thon/thons/thonself

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    Ooo the right to die issue is extremely muddy and hard to talk about. The line between eugenics and mercy are so blurred. Definitely an issue worthy of consideration.

    I never considered that all operations carry a risk about would be tied into that debate. Thanks for making this thread that's another aspect i can think on.
     
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  19. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    And the surgery for women is *much* more complicated and, usually, invasive than that for men. It is possible to go through the cervix, which eliminates cutting the abdominal muscles, but that lessens the chances of success.

    While we are talking about this, it is good to point out that sterilization is not 100% effective. Spontaneous recanalization is possible in vasectomies and happens in 1 in 100,000 cases. For women, there is a risk of ectopic pregnancies.
     
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  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    I found a correlation between wearing a slide rule on
    my belt & a total impossibility of impregnating anyone.
    (They came with belt loops back in the day.)
    The procedure is reversible too!
    [​IMG]
     
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