Should Scotland be Independent?

[Mycroft]

If Scotland wants to be Independant, that's their choice.

But first you must tell us how Scotland plans to afford it?

1) It doesn't have it's own economy, so it cannot issue its own currency.
2) It wont be able to use the pound or the euro when independant.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If Scotland wants to be Independant, that's their choice.

But first you must tell us how Scotland plans to afford it?

1) It doesn't have it's own economy, so it cannot issue its own currency.
2) It wont be able to use the pound or the euro when independant.

Come up with something different. Really, it's what we all need.

 

[HonestJoe]

Yes. Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England should all have their independence. (Northern Ireland should become part of the Republic of Ireland, but first things first...)

Why? The independence vote in Scotland was pushed very much by Alex Salmond's self-interests and even that's still favouring a "No" vote while the people of the other parts of the UK haven't expressed any desire for full independence from the UK. Are you suggesting it should be forced upon us?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why? The independence vote in Scotland was pushed very much by Alex Salmond's self-interests and even that's still favouring a "No" vote while the people of the other parts of the UK haven't expressed any desire for full independence from the UK. Are you suggesting it should be forced upon us?

Because England forced themselves upon those nations, and the "UK" is little more than remnants of England's colonist imperialism.

 

[DreadFish]

Well, I read in the paper today that, after the debate last night, most viewers decided that the stance against independence won.

 

[HonestJoe]

Because England forced themselves upon those nations, and the "UK" is little more than remnants of England's colonist imperialism.

You could say the same about the USA but I don't hear many calls about giving that back to the Native Americans. I don't see the rational in making pre/post British Empire as some definitive cut-off point for where modern political boundaries should be drawn.
Anyway, England didn’t really force itself on anyone, the Crown did and at the time that was as much Scottish as English (and fairly French too). Wales probably has a better claim for independence on that point. The nobles of southern Scotland were as responsible for any imperialism as anyone else and the common people either side of the border were treated pretty much the same.

Regardless, the emotive principles and calls to (specific) history is really just your personal opinion. My question was about independence being forced upon populations today who don't want it. There shouldn't be independence for Scotland because of some interpretation of medieval history, there should only be independence if the people today wish there to be.

 

[Brickjectivity]

It calls into question the civil war here in the USA, not that I disagree with the north's victory. I'm glad we're a single country, but the war was fought over unity versus the right of states to secede. UK has a republican form of government. This will be a vote for or against Britain's form of government.

 

[Vouthon]

I am Scottish, born and bred. I've traced my ancestry in this country back to the 1600s. That's just the "paper trail".

I am completely opposed to the idea of Scottish independence. It has been spearheaded by the SNP, the "Scottish National Party". I would rather be roasted alive than give my democratic vote to any organisation with the word "national" in it, a mythical construction that has caused more suffering for human beings in the last 400 years of its existence than anything else (Two World Wars anybody?).

I am opposed firstly on economic grounds. Independence will be bad for Scottish businesses and that means bad for me and my family. Cutting ourselves off from the economic, diplomatic, political and historical clout of the UK on the international stage (a permanent seat on the UN security council etc.) because of a bunch of kilt-wearing, porridge-munching, Whiskey-downing, wannabe William Wallaces fuelled by anti-English xenophobia, a gooey-eyed romanticized image of a bygone, largely mythical golden age of Highland utopianism turning us from a regional and world power into a small nation at the mercy of larger neighbours and a poorer one at that...Count me out.

Secondly I abhor nationalism, even in the soft "civic" form that the SNP promotes. An independent Scotland will be a much more ethnically homogenous unit, whereas Britain is a political union of four countries with multiple different ethnic groups bound by attachment to purely shared political and social institutions - the crown, parliament, the pound, the BBC etc. - and is a multi-cultural state.

Thirdly the Independence campaign has been a botched job. The SNP and their allies have still not given us a clear blueprint for an independent Scotland. All we have been given is vague promises that have been flatly contradicted by people who know better.

We've been told we'll still be in the European Union. Then we learned from the EU that we actually would have to apply for membership. We were told we could keep the pound. Then we learned that if we joined the EU (IF!) we would actually have to adopt the Euro and even if we didn't that a currency union without full political and fiscal union would be unworkable. We were told that we were still keeping the Queen just like Canada and Australia. Then we learned that there would be a referendum on that and that the SNP is full of republicans...I could go on but I don't wish to bore people.

Fourthly the SNP are destroying my country. Children now have state guardians because the government thinks that parents are not responsible enough to care for their own children. There is now one NATIONAL police force armed with guns. Our education has been re-vamped under a new "curriculum for excellence" in which our youngsters are now being spoon-fed nationalistic propaganda about Scotland. Here's an example. Children used to be taught about the "Holocaust". Now its, "The Holocaust from a Scottish perspective". And the legal system has been in turmoil. The ancient Scots Law of corroboration, a unique part of our renowned legal system, was going to be removed until protests stalled the process. It still might be. A law was passed two years back allegedly to stop sectarianism between football fans which actually cut away freedom of speech and was branded by one of our top judges as "horribly drafted".

Needless to say I will NOT be voting for independence. Peoples need to bind themselves closer together in a globalized world, not fragment back into small "nation-states" with localized, small-minded worldviews and the exaltation of mythical nationalisms.

 

[Yerda]

Its up to the Scots.

If we vote yes, then yes. If we vote no, then no.

 

[Yerda]

I am Scottish, born and bred. I've traced my ancestry in this country back to the 1600s. That's just the "paper trail".

So...?

Permanent residence here is all that matters.

...a bunch of kilt-wearing, porridge-munching, Whiskey-downing, wannabe William Wallaces fuelled by anti-English xenophobia, a gooey-eyed romanticized image of a bygone, largely mythical golden age of Highland utopianism turning us from a regional and world power into a small nation at the mercy of larger neighbours and a poorer one at that...

This is childish.

Fourthly the SNP are destroying my country.

In an independent Scotland you will still be entitled to vote for whichever party pleases you or none.

Peoples need to bind themselves closer together in a globalized world, not fragment back into small "nation-states" with localized, small-minded worldviews and the exaltation of mythical nationalisms.

We can still be citizens of the world.

 

[Yerda]

It calls into question the civil war here in the USA, not that I disagree with the north's victory. I'm glad we're a single country, but the war was fought over unity versus the right of states to secede. UK has a republican form of government. This will be a vote for or against Britain's form of government.

The UK is not a republic.

 

[Alceste]

I'm in favour of decentralization / relocalization as a general rule. Smaller organizations can respond and innovate more quickly to changing circumstances (I.e. Global warming) , and leaders with local roots are more likely to feel a personal responsibility for the wellbeing of those impacted by their decisions.

So yes. Yes to Scotland, yes to Quebec, yes to Wales, yes to Palestine, yes to a state for the Kurds, etc. No to the borg.

 

[Alceste]

If Scotland becomes an autonomous state, then the British will have to abandon Ulster too.

It is curious how the UK Government let Scots free to decide whether to be independent or not...whereas it doesn't give Ulster people the same chance

Many in Ulster are loyalists. Scotland, not so much.

 

[Mycroft]

Come up with something different. Really, it's what we all need.

That doesn't answer the question, though. You can't start a country on wishful thinking.

 

[Erebus]

I'm not sure Scotland being independent would solve much, though I wouldn't be against it if that's what the Scots want.

I do have an alternative solution though, everybody in Scotland teams up with everybody in Northern England and Wales. We head down to London with as many saws as we can muster and hack it off the island, leave it to drift over to France

 

[Brickjectivity]

The UK is not a republic.

Oh, you are right. It has similarity to a republic in that representatives are voted for. It is a constitutional monarchy, and the parliament is dominant. It seems like we have borrowed quite a bit from the UK in our own government. Our laws are very closely based upon the old precedents there, and our justice system is strongly affected by people like Blackstone. We inherited the concept of 'Common Law' from there. Our countries share a resemblance.

 

[Vouthon]

So...?

Permanent residence here is all that matters.

I am aware of this Jaiket and also of the 'civic' rather than 'ethnic' orientation of the debate and the referendum (although the SNP's 'Coming Home' events for expats and those of Scottish descent in other countries belies this in my POV). I am domiciled in Scotland

The only reason I said this was to demonstrate that I am by no means someone who lacks interest in my country.

This is childish.

I was being half-humorous but with a serious undertone. I have seen first hand how many Nationalists, not all of them by any means but a fair number, are guided more by the heart than by the head. Kilts, the anthem, ancestry, Jacobites, the Declaration of Arbroath (where Salmond was yesterday talking about it!)...all of these romantic notions override a serious discussion of currency, jobs, position on the world stage and other matters of the 'head' that are of true importance to most people. My uncle has been a lifelong SNP supporter and is present at nearly every rally and he falls into this 'heart' category which I was highlighting.

In an independent Scotland you will still be entitled to vote for whichever party pleases you or none.

The SNP often frame the referendum as wider than their own party's agenda. Funnily enough, none of the other main parties support independence.

We can still be citizens of the world.

As part of a much more insular, nationalist Scotland that looks inward rather than outward?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That doesn't answer the question, though. You can't start a country on wishful thinking.

Just because you come with a new approach to government doesn't mean it is wishful thinking. America's Constitution was filled with new ideas (even such a Constitution was kinda new and not widely practiced), and was far from wishful thinking. The UK colonies I'm sure would come up with a way to govern themselves.

 

[Vouthon]

Just because you come with a new approach to government doesn't mean it is wishful thinking. America's Constitution was filled with new ideas (even such a Constitution was kinda new and not widely practiced), and was far from wishful thinking. The UK colonies I'm sure would come up with a way to govern themselves.

Scotland is not a 'colony' of the UK. We Scots (I regret to inform you) were actually among the most avid colonizers of the British Empire rather than the reverse. Of course some staunch Scottish Nationalists would be unable to admit this less than savoury fact about our history.

 

[Kerr]

Should Scotland be Independent? There is a referendum for Scottish Independence, in September 2014.
If any Scottish are around here, what are the reason you would want Scotland to be independent or remain in UK?

I think thats for the Scotts to decide.