Should Religious Exemptions Be Ditched?

[Revoltingest]

It strikes me as illegal discrimination to give special privileges
to people of some religions, & deny them to heathens & believers
of other religions.
The military draft....Covid 19 vaccination...the list goes on.

Religious exemptions are also ridiculous, considering that
one need only make the claim, whether one believes it or not.
A wildly popular app for churches is now an anti-vax hotbed.

Notice:
If anyone complains about needing more options in the poll,
their armpits will be infested with the fleas of a thousand
shaved weasels.

Notice:
I'm expressing opinions herein, even if I don't affix the
usual "IMO" to every one.

 

[Secret Chief]

What kind of fleas?

 

[Revoltingest]

What kind of fleas?

Hungry ones.

 

[Aštra’el]

I do not approve of the ditching of religious exemptions, but this does not equate to “should not”. There is no “should” or “should not”.

 

[Brickjectivity]

It strikes me as illegal discrimination to give special privileges
to people of some religions, & deny them to heathens & believers
of other religions.
The military draft....Covid 19 vaccination...the list goes on.

Religious exemptions are also ridiculous, considering that
one need only make the claim, whether one believes it or not.

Notice:
If anyone complains about needing more options in the poll,
their armpits will be infested with the fleas of a thousand
shaved weasels.

Lets limit it to the USA draft, which is what I think you're talking about.

What are the religious exemptions to which you prefer? Conscientious objection? So you would have the words 'Or religious' struck from this so that it only allows for moral grounds:

"A conscientious objector is one who is opposed to serving in the armed forces and/or bearing arms on the grounds of moral or religious principles." -- Conscientious Objectors | Selective Service System​

Anyone can register as a conscientious objector. It doesn't have to be on religious grounds. Given this information do you still object to the wording?

Conscientious objection in the United States - Wikipedia

"A registrant making a claim for conscientious objection is required to appear before his local board to explain his beliefs. He may provide written documentation or include personal appearances by people he knows who can attest to his claims." --https://www.sss.gov/conscientious-objectors/​

During war it is difficult to convince the local boards that one is a conscientious objector. They won't accept personal testimony, alone; and they will try to overturn your claim and force you into the military. They'll look for anything that shows a crack in your claim, any moral weakness in you. Even if they don't make you a combatant they'll still make you do some kind of service which can be menial or dangerous service near to battle. Its not easy to convince these local boards that you are serious, that you really aren't just scared to go into battle.

 

[Stevicus]

It strikes me as illegal discrimination to give special privileges
to people of some religions, & deny them to heathens & believers
of other religions.
The military draft....Covid 19 vaccination...the list goes on.

Religious exemptions are also ridiculous, considering that
one need only make the claim, whether one believes it or not.
A wildly popular app for churches is now an anti-vax hotbed.

Notice:
If anyone complains about needing more options in the poll,
their armpits will be infested with the fleas of a thousand
shaved weasels.

Religion wouldn't necessarily exempt one from the draft, but they can be exempted from any job where they might have to kill someone. That's why a lot of conscientious objectors took jobs as medics at the frontline, so they could prove that they weren't cowards, but just had strong religious convictions.

However, I don't think it's the government's place to decide which is a legitimate religion and which isn't. I also think that if we tear down the wall of separation between church and state, that could be a double-edged sword.

 

[Revoltingest]

Lets limit it to the USA draft, which is what I think you're talking about.

That was just one item in a non-exhaustive list.

What are the religious exemptions to which you prefer? Conscientious objection? So you would have the words 'Or religious' struck from this so that it only allows for moral grounds:

"A conscientious objector is one who is opposed to serving in the armed forces and/or bearing arms on the grounds of moral or religious principles." -- Conscientious Objectors | Selective Service System​

Anyone can register as a conscientious objector. It doesn't have to be on religious grounds. Given this information do you still object to the wording?

Conscientious objection in the United States - Wikipedia

"A registrant making a claim for conscientious objection is required to appear before his local board to explain his beliefs. He may provide written documentation or include personal appearances by people he knows who can attest to his claims." --https://www.sss.gov/conscientious-objectors/​

During war it is difficult to convince the local boards that one is a conscientious objector. They won't accept personal testimony, alone; and they will try to overturn your claim and force you into the military. They'll look for anything that shows a crack in your claim, any moral weakness in you. Even if they don't make you a combatant they'll still make you do some kind of service which can be menial or dangerous service near to battle. Its not easy to convince these local boards that you are serious, that you really aren't just scared to go into battle.

It's still a benefit conferred upon believers,
but not on one who objects to serving for
other reasons, eg....
- Opposition to war for philosophical rather than religious reasons.
- Opposition to a particular war.
- Scared of war.
- Opposition to the draft, ie, involuntary servitude.

As I recall when investigating conscious objector
status in the 70s, I wasn't qualified for the reason
of having no religion.

 

[Revoltingest]

Religion wouldn't necessarily exempt one from the draft, but they can be exempted from any job where they might have to kill someone. That's why a lot of conscientious objectors took jobs as medics at the frontline, so they could prove that they weren't cowards, but just had strong religious convictions.

However, I don't think it's the government's place to decide which is a legitimate religion and which isn't. I also think that if we tear down the wall of separation between church and state, that could be a double-edged sword.

What's wrong with cowardice?
I find it more cromulent than religious belief,
since it's founded upon reality, not myths.

Do you support believers who say their religion
prohibits vaccination against virulent diseases,
thereby putting themselves & others at risk?
Should they be afforded all the privileges of
people who do vaccinate, ie, a Typhoid Mary
among us by legal right scenario?

 

[Secret Chief]

illegal

Do you mean this? Or mean it should be?

 

[Stevicus]

What's wrong with cowardice?
I find it more cromulent than religious belief,
since it's founded upon reality, not myths.

Do you support believers who say their religion
prohibits vaccination against virulent diseases,
thereby putting themselves & others at risk?
Should they be afforded all the privileges of
people who do vaccinate, ie, a Typhoid Mary
among us by legal right scenario?

I didn't say there was anything wrong with cowardice.

At this point, I see many people refusing the vaccinations for a variety of reasons, not just religious. I don't think anyone is forced to get the vaccine if they really don't want to get it, regardless of the reason. However, this might mean that they could face restrictions in places which require vaccines, either at their place of work, or traveling on an airplane, going to a restaurant or store, entering government buildings, etc. So, I support people's right to refuse the vaccine, but I also support the rights of those who take necessary measures to protect themselves and others.

 

[sun rise]

If anyone complains about needing more options in the poll,
their armpits will be infested with the fleas of a thousand
shaved weasels.

I'm not going to complain, of course, but I'm not going to answer either, because absolutist 'yes'/'no' choices are very often wrong because they don't allow for nuance.

 

[Revoltingest]

Do you mean this? Or mean it should be?

I say it's already illegal, ie, unconstitutional, because
it violates equal protection.
Of course....government doesn't see things my way.

 

[Revoltingest]

I didn't say there was anything wrong with cowardice.

At this point, I see many people refusing the vaccinations for a variety of reasons, not just religious. I don't think anyone is forced to get the vaccine if they really don't want to get it, regardless of the reason. However, this might mean that they could face restrictions in places which require vaccines, either at their place of work, or traveling on an airplane, going to a restaurant or store, entering government buildings, etc. So, I support people's right to refuse the vaccine, but I also support the rights of those who take necessary measures to protect themselves and others.

This thread is about claiming religious exemption,
not the other reasons to oppose vaccination.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not going to complain, of course, but I'm not going to answer either, because absolutist 'yes'/'no' choices are very often wrong because they don't allow for nuance.

Still a flea-worth complaint.

 

[Laika]

It strikes me as illegal discrimination to give special privileges
to people of some religions, & deny them to heathens & believers
of other religions.
The military draft....Covid 19 vaccination...the list goes on.

Religious exemptions are also ridiculous, considering that
one need only make the claim, whether one believes it or not.
A wildly popular app for churches is now an anti-vax hotbed.

Notice:
If anyone complains about needing more options in the poll,
their armpits will be infested with the fleas of a thousand
shaved weasels.

I may need more information to reach a considered opinion, but I would oppose eliminating religious exemptions. This would be especially true regarding conscription or the draft, as I basically stand by the rights of conscientious objectors (and probably would be one myself if I was religious).

 

[Mock Turtle]

Yeah, religious beliefs should make one exempt, like from the army - especially numbskulls like the Taliban.

 

[Revoltingest]

I may need more information to reach a considered opinion, but I would oppose eliminating religious exemptions. This would be especially true regarding conscription or the draft, as I basically stand by the rights of conscientious objectors (and probably would be one myself if I was religious).

A problem....
If one claims to have a particular religious belief,
then they're exempt from some pretty onerous service.
Those who don't believe it must serve instead.
This creates 2 classes of people, one more privileged
than the other simply because of claimed belief.
Fair?
Legal?
I say no.

 

[Stevicus]

This thread is about claiming religious exemption,
not the other reasons to oppose vaccination.

Yes, although you had mentioned that people could claim conscientious objector status based on religion, but not on other reasons. I agree that they should allow any reason to apply - or no reason. But just because they don't allow other reasons doesn't necessarily delegitimize religious exemptions.

I just like having the wall of separation between church and state. Remove that wall, and it'll probably lead to even more problems.

 

[Secret Chief]

I say it's already illegal, ie, unconstitutional, because
it violates equal protection.
Of course....government doesn't see things my way.

Errrrrrr. Does unconstitutional automatically mean illegal in the US then?

 

[Revoltingest]

I just like having the wall of separation between church and state. Remove that wall, and it'll probably lead to even more problems.

I propose enhancing that wall by stopping government
from giving preferential treatment to adherents of some
religious beliefs.
For example, we don't allow landlords to discriminate
based upon religious belief....yet government itself does
discriminate this way, in matters of great consequence,
eg, compulsive military service, vaccination, taxation.