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Should people vote on the abortion issue foremost?

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Child sacrifice and murder of innocent babies is a big issue for some people. Should they vote with this a a priority? I would suggest it would be a good idea. What do you think? Be prepared to defend your position.
I think any politician who has such little regard for human rights that that they would deny the right to an abortion is someone who is unfit for public office.

I wouldn't vote based on this issue alone, but is it a priority? Sure.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
The anti-abortion crowd is religiously driven. It's a religious issue.
The American people do NOT want religious-inspired laws forced on a secular society.
 

Tambourine

Well-Known Member
People are going to do it anyways. I'd rather see this in a sterile proper clinical setting as opposed to infanticide through abandonment via hangers, trash bags, dumpsters, and toilets.

The best way to avoid it altogether is employing proper contraception and education so its not even something on the radar.
Anti-abortion policies are almost never about actually preventing abortions.

And to be honest, I wouldn't care if they were. If a woman wants to have an abortion, it's her right.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I would consider someone that is against the wanton slaughter of millions of babies as a person that has a heart, and some idea of humanity and Scripture. Sex education today has zero to do with respecting babies.
In your OP, you suggested that we should be prepared to defend our position. It seems you have a few assumptions that could stand defending themselves.

For starters, try defending your assumption that a politician who would vote to ban abortion (if given the opportunity) is necessarily someone who is actually against abortion.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Why should this be the only issue? If you care about human life why stop caring after the moment of birth?

Shouldn’t healthcare also be a major issue? Shouldn’t Covid be a major issue?

And we know that things like healthcare, affordable education, employment and a living wage, decent housing etc will have a dramatic effect in reducing the rate of abortion. If you are anti-abortion vote for someone who supports these ideas. Not just someone who wants to control women.

I think it is all intertwined. If you don't care about human life in pre-conception, you have established a principle for the whole of living. If life is expendable (for financial reason) because it puts a burden on you, then you can say the same of the elderly when you can say "they are expendable for financial reasons".

If life is expendable for financial reason, then you can stop healthcare for financial reasons when "it is no longer financially profitable to keep that sick person living including COVID>

However, if life before birth is classified as "the sanctity of life" no matter what the financial strain is (looking strictly at the financial reason), then so are the elderly, and so would be helping the sick no matter what the cost.

Can they be linked together?
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
I think it is all intertwined. If you don't care about human life in pre-conception, you have established a principle for the whole of living. If life is expendable (for financial reason) because it puts a burden on you, then you can say the same of the elderly when you can say "they are expendable for financial reasons".

If life is expendable for financial reason, then you can stop healthcare for financial reasons when "it is no longer financially profitable to keep that sick person living including COVID>

However, if life before birth is classified as "the sanctity of life" no matter what the financial strain is (looking strictly at the financial reason), then so are the elderly, and so would be helping the sick no matter what the cost.

Can they be linked together?
My observation has been that it is the other way round. It seems that those who are most virulently anti-abortion are also anti-healthcare, anti-education, pro-war ect. Even (and this goes back a few years) anti-abortion politicians why were pro-smoking and pro-death penalty. I can see no logical reason why it should be this way, but observation tells me that it is.

I am not saying that no one on the anti-abortion side is consistent, but the politicians and political parties seem backwards on this.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I think it is all intertwined. If you don't care about human life in pre-conception, you have established a principle for the whole of living. If life is expendable (for financial reason) because it puts a burden on you, then you can say the same of the elderly when you can say "they are expendable for financial reasons".

If life is expendable for financial reason, then you can stop healthcare for financial reasons when "it is no longer financially profitable to keep that sick person living including COVID>

However, if life before birth is classified as "the sanctity of life" no matter what the financial strain is (looking strictly at the financial reason), then so are the elderly, and so would be helping the sick no matter what the cost.

Can they be linked together?
I see the link in a different way: those who would ignore the basic humanity of pregnant people by ignoring their rights tend to also discount human rights in other ways.

The evil nature of the anti-choice position rarely contains itself to just the issue of abortion.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
My observation has been that it is the other way round. It seems that those who are most virulently anti-abortion are also anti-healthcare, anti-education, pro-war ect. Even (and this goes back a few years) anti-abortion politicians why were pro-smoking and pro-death penalty. I can see no logical reason why it should be this way, but observation tells me that it is.
Because they aren't really pro-life, they are pro controling and restricting women's rights. Forcing women by law to go through pregnancy and childbirth against their will is just seen as perfectly normal and par for the course when people see the emancipation of women from a factory-farm view or production with contempt, because that poses a threat to their centrally misogynistic and patriarchal worldview. Abortion laws are just another means of oppression.
 

dad

Undefeated
To the contrary educating people how to have sex without making unwanted babies has everything to do with respecting babies.

Its the people who think just telling horny teenagers not to engage in sex who'se negligence results in unwanted unrespected babies being made
Making babies unwanted is more the problem. To 'educate' people how to have free sex and damn the consequences is the problem. I think people should be educated in the love of God, and learn to love rather than murder and live in any way they see fit, while sacrificing the children to do so.
 

dad

Undefeated
Because they aren't really pro-life, they are pro controling and restricting women's rights.

No one has the right to murder others. Manson's gang had no right to kill Tate and others. It is not an issue of rights.

Forcing women by law to go through pregnancy and childbirth against their will is just seen as perfectly normal and par for the course when people see the emancipation of women from a factory-farm view or production with contempt,
Next thing you know those nazis will be forcing robins to sit in their nests on the eggs?
because that poses a threat to their centrally misogynistic and patriarchal worldview. Abortion laws are just another means of oppression.
Babies are being sacrificed, hacked to death, burned or otherwise destroyed and you think the oppression is against those doing it. OK.
 

dad

Undefeated
Why should this be the only issue? If you care about human life why stop caring after the moment of birth?

Shouldn’t healthcare also be a major issue? Shouldn’t Covid be a major issue?

And we know that things like healthcare, affordable education, employment and a living wage, decent housing etc will have a dramatic effect in reducing the rate of abortion. If you are anti-abortion vote for someone who supports these ideas. Not just someone who wants to control women.
There are many many many many issues. However, some of us may not want a person of the character and moral fortitude that loves whacking babies to make all those choices for us.
 

dad

Undefeated
Adults should understand that the end does not justify the means. When you vote for people who are willing to deliberately install biased judges and create corrupted courts just to get a law that you want, you end up destroying the whole system. Because you end up with politicians willing to do anything to get elected, and public officials who disregard the will of the people they are supposed to be serving in favor of their (and your) own. Good intentioned or not, you're nothing but a saboteur at that point.
Great little rant. So does this mean you are for installing child sacrifice loving judges and leaders, or the other way round?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
There are many many many many issues. However, some of us may not want a person of the character and moral fortitude that loves whacking babies to make all those choices for us.
OTOH, many of us think that when someone devalues women to the point where he denies them the rights we even grant to corpses, this reflects poorly in their character.
 

dad

Undefeated
If you feel that this is the biggest issue in politics then you should make it a priority when voting. We all prioritise some issues over others when we vote.
That seems like a sound proposition, vote the way we like. OK.

Personally, I think it's a mistake to criminalise abortion (which I'm assuming is what you're driving at but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) particularly if you neglect related issues such as poor access to contraceptives, sub-par sex education, poverty and rape.
Murder is criminal. If inmates are running the prison, then I guess all that is left is God's swat team to come in a restore order. (as in judgment on a nation)

Just to be clear, I'm firmly pro-choice. However, if you want abortion to be a thing of the past, you really need to look into what contributes to somebody choosing to abort.
Says you. However since you admit to consenting to babies being killed why would I care what you advise?
Referring to it as "Child sacrifice" is missing the point completely.
It is calling a spade a spade.
Somebody may choose to abort because they can't afford to raise a child
Someone may choose to rob a bank because they can't afford rent. Some people may choose to swindle in a pyramid scheme because they want an island to themselves. Some people may choose to burn down your business because they choose to riot and loot. Some people may choose to mug an old lady on a dark street because they want her purse. What the reasons may be that some people want to kill millions of children are not important.

, they don't abort because they want to appease a demon.
They may not admit what spirits inspire the murder. I can say it sure ain't God.
 

dad

Undefeated
I think that if people want to enslave women, they should be honest about it.
People are welcome to believe any silly notion they like. I do not share the opinion that God given nature and the roles of men and women are enslavement. Sin is enslavement and murder.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I see, to the issue is not a big deal for you. OK.

No that is the wrong inference to draw. However:-

1) abortion is not a simple black-and-white, for-or-against issue,

2) Trump has no consistent position on this or anything else, save what he thinks he needs to fool enough right wing religious fundamentalists into voting for him,

3) there are many other issues of critical importance to the future wellbeing of the nation that need to be taken into account when you vote.

4) Trump is a thoroughly malign person, showing signs of being personally evil. Yes, I really mean that. That too should be taken into account, by any person with honest religious scruples.
 

dad

Undefeated
Here's some Number's from the United States 2015

638169 Abortions in a year
128000 Adoptions in a year, Unless you can increase the number of kids being adopted. I am against banning abortion. Children should not be taken care of by the state.
683000 child abuse cases prosecuted a year. I would rather focus on keeping children that are alive safe and happy.
Some might consider it child abuse to have a child bring a bible to school. Others might consider training a child in the way they should go as abuse. Basically, people abuse the word abuse and render it to mean almost anything they do not like.

I find it really upsetting that a person can force an unwanted child in the world just because and then do nothing to insure that child grows up healthy and happy.
If a mugger in a dark street decides not to mug an old lady, you think he is forcing her to walk to the end of the street!? Do you think NOT murdering a baby in a mother is forcing her to be a mother? The time to NOT get pregnant is before you get pregnant. Once people do the deed, the time is over for second guessing.

If you want me to support a ban on abortion, I want you to support the heath and happiness of all children.
So if we want people to stop blowing up buildings we need to up their welfare? If we want bank robbers to stop shooting up and robbing banks we need to pay them? I think many people would love to adopt and help the situation, and I am all for merciful treatment of the poor and single moms etc etc. We also need to take responsibility for actions ourselves. Of people had always sat around worrying about if their kids would be quite well cared enough for we might not have nuch of a human race.
 

dad

Undefeated
I think any politician who has such little regard for human rights that that they would deny the right to an abortion is someone who is unfit for public office.

I wouldn't vote based on this issue alone, but is it a priority? Sure.
There is no right to kill millions. The only ones with the human rights are the innocents that are being sacrificed and killed.
 
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