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Should I Keep Trying to Understand and Save Christianity?

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
If you have been following the forums long, you may have noticed that I'm whiny about Christianity but am still a Christian. There are a lot of practices that I don't like in Christianity today. I'm concerned about these practices damaging my relatives and which anger me. Specifically: the modern concept they call 'Worship', the Church Industry of Franchised Churches, the fake Bible seminaries that church out 'Ministers', and above all the practice of teaching children that death is not real. People often go to church, sit, listen, donate, leave and forget. I hate these things. One person in a thousand spends time working with the homeless or visits rest homes or prisons or orphanages.

At the same time, all of the people involved from the ministers to the church members to the organist who's just payed to be there -- they all have brains and all contribute good things to the world. They matter, and I have seen the damage that this kind of life can do to them. At the same time their views of church are integrated with their lives, and you can't just go changing people's lives. They really believe that their loved ones that have died are safe somewhere up in another dimension or in another place or that they will be brought back from death. This is a huge comfort for many. Taking it away is like taking candy away.

Also if everybody listened to one person (me) that would not be healthy for any concerned I think. Every time a persuasive religious leader pops up I think it does not really change much. It tends to justify their tendency to search for people to tell them things that they want to hear.

There is also a contradiction in my effort. I'm someone who believes in a very Biblical approach to Christianity, something that does not involve a personal afterlife. I think Christianity is supposed to be a community that grimly accepts personal death in order to contribute to life for all. It is a life of labor and selflessness, but you know what I am not actually living that way. I'm just observing what I think the Bible says about it. In that case I really do not have a personal stake in it. There's not much that I contribute at the moment. How would I ever get other people to commit to it?
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Much of what people cal "Christianity" is about as far what the teachings of Jesus and the Bible as one can get. I doubt that there is much you can do to convince people of this because they have been so brainwashed that they cannot see the truth.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
If you have been following the forums long, you may have noticed that I'm whiny about Christianity but am still a Christian. There are a lot of practices that I don't like in Christianity today. I'm concerned about these practices damaging my relatives and which anger me. Specifically: the modern concept they call 'Worship', the Church Industry of Franchised Churches, the fake Bible seminaries that church out 'Ministers', and above all the practice of teaching children that death is not real. People often go to church, sit, listen, donate, leave and forget. I hate these things. One person in a thousand spends time working with the homeless or visits rest homes or prisons or orphanages.

At the same time, all of the people involved from the ministers to the church members to the organist who's just payed to be there -- they all have brains and all contribute good things to the world. They matter, and I have seen the damage that this kind of life can do to them. At the same time their views of church are integrated with their lives, and you can't just go changing people's lives. They really believe that their loved ones that have died are safe somewhere up in another dimension or in another place or that they will be brought back from death. This is a huge comfort for many. Taking it away is like taking candy away.

Also if everybody listened to one person (me) that would not be healthy for any concerned I think. Every time a persuasive religious leader pops up I think it does not really change much. It tends to justify their tendency to search for people to tell them things that they want to hear.

There is also a contradiction in my effort. I'm someone who believes in a very Biblical approach to Christianity, something that does not involve a personal afterlife. I think Christianity is supposed to be a community that grimly accepts personal death in order to contribute to life for all. It is a life of labor and selflessness, but you know what I am not actually living that way. I'm just observing what I think the Bible says about it. In that case I really do not have a personal stake in it. There's not much that I contribute at the moment. How would I ever get other people to commit to it?
But the Resurrection is literally the cornerstone of the Christian faith...
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
If you have been following the forums long, you may have noticed that I'm whiny about Christianity but am still a Christian. There are a lot of practices that I don't like in Christianity today. I'm concerned about these practices damaging my relatives and which anger me. Specifically: the modern concept they call 'Worship', the Church Industry of Franchised Churches, the fake Bible seminaries that church out 'Ministers', and above all the practice of teaching children that death is not real. People often go to church, sit, listen, donate, leave and forget. I hate these things. One person in a thousand spends time working with the homeless or visits rest homes or prisons or orphanages.

At the same time, all of the people involved from the ministers to the church members to the organist who's just payed to be there -- they all have brains and all contribute good things to the world. They matter, and I have seen the damage that this kind of life can do to them. At the same time their views of church are integrated with their lives, and you can't just go changing people's lives. They really believe that their loved ones that have died are safe somewhere up in another dimension or in another place or that they will be brought back from death. This is a huge comfort for many. Taking it away is like taking candy away.

Also if everybody listened to one person (me) that would not be healthy for any concerned I think. Every time a persuasive religious leader pops up I think it does not really change much. It tends to justify their tendency to search for people to tell them things that they want to hear.

There is also a contradiction in my effort. I'm someone who believes in a very Biblical approach to Christianity, something that does not involve a personal afterlife. I think Christianity is supposed to be a community that grimly accepts personal death in order to contribute to life for all. It is a life of labor and selflessness, but you know what I am not actually living that way. I'm just observing what I think the Bible says about it. In that case I really do not have a personal stake in it. There's not much that I contribute at the moment. How would I ever get other people to commit to it?

You deny the resurrection..that's very Un-Christian. You're a humanist not a Christian...
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
But the Resurrection is literally the cornerstone of the Christian faith...
Rather than go into here which might derail I will give you some prep. I take Jesus very seriously, especially when he says "Anyone who would follow me must deny himself" and also when salvation requires Baptism. That is, when you are baptized you die. That is what Baptism means. You repent from all personal endeavors. Which is to say you accept the end of your civilian life and consider it to be gone, dead, worthless, meaningless. It would be ironic then, to think that an afterlife had meaning. Everything that is 'You' is just the shell of a seed and what lives on is something new which is not you. When you become a Christian you just die early. What you have been calling 'Resurrectoin' is merely the dream of an afterlife, a non-christian concept and are calling it the resurrection, which it is not. It is Egyptian, Greek, Babylonian or whatever but not Christian. The resurrection happens immediately when a person repents. It is a transference from death into life. It is being seated in heavenly places with Christ, even while the dead shell that is you finishes its dying. There is a new heaven and a new Earth and a New Jerusalem, now; and John the Baptist is Elijah. There is no more any condemnation for them which are in Christ Jesus, because they have put to death the deeds of the flesh. To be a Christian is a grim, cheerful, selfless and dedicated life. It is not something that rewards you with an afterlife. It is resurrection, and it is a high honor.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
I come to these forums to discuss and debate along with everyone else, but in my personal life, I walk what I believe and pray that God will show everyone the truth, not the truth I believe, but the TRUTH. Maybe what I believe isn't the total truth, maybe I have things wrong, so I pray that God will reveal the Gospel truth to them.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Christianity is the Way, the Truth and Life.

I have seen that there is no one who cares about the truth, so I suspect everyone, evil and good, believer and atheist, will all suffer the same fate.

Jesus was for seeking. They believe they have found what God will have them find. That is no different than anyone else. Actually, I have described to people who have no investments in so called Jesus and they understand the truth about what I can see.

I don't think Jesus meant for a person to live a selfless life, but to live for the will of God to do which, of course, includes being a help to other people.

I believe in the resurrection, but I think that how a person lives now isn't paramount for it.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It is written that the saints "await" the new Heaven and the new Earth, so then, the resurrection has to be more than an individual's transformation because it was written after they were transformed. Wasn't it?
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
I come to these forums to discuss and debate along with everyone else, but in my personal life, I walk what I believe and pray that God will show everyone the truth, not the truth I believe, but the TRUTH. Maybe what I believe isn't the total truth, maybe I have things wrong, so I pray that God will reveal the Gospel truth to them.
That is humble and very valuable.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Christianity is the Way, the Truth and Life.

I have seen that there is no one who cares about the truth, so I suspect everyone, evil and good, believer and atheist, will all suffer the same fate.

Jesus was for seeking. They believe they have found what God will have them find. That is no different than anyone else. Actually, I have described to people who have no investments in so called Jesus and they understand the truth about what I can see.

I don't think Jesus meant for a person to live a selfless life, but to live for the will of God to do which, of course, includes being a help to other people.

I believe in the resurrection, but I think that how a person lives now isn't paramount for it.
So all are the same to God, but there is an afterlife? Is this the gist of what you are saying?

I have seen that there is no one who cares about the truth, so I suspect everyone, evil and good, believer and atheist, will all suffer the same fate.
You refer to the problem of the heart never being honest? Is this what you mean?
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
But the Resurrection is literally the cornerstone of the Christian faith...
the bible doesn't teach that the personality is resurrected. it may teach resurrection but it isn't the/a personality. the personality dies with the body. the Spirit is raised.


Luke 20:36
and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

Romans 8:11
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

Moses, Isaac, Abraham, Jacob all died and and the Spirit resurrected.

37 But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
It is written that the saints "await" the new Heaven and the new Earth, so then, the resurrection has to be more than an individual's transformation because it was written after they were transformed. Wasn't it?
...and Jesus says John the Baptist is Elijah, yet he is John the Baptist, and Jesus says people walking about on the ground are dead in their trespasses and sins, and also believers can drink deadly poison without dying. I'm not going to wrestle you into submission. I'm also not playing with silly putty. The Bible is no toy, and it is dangerous to use it in the wrong way. It can kill people, and I'm aware of that. Any good thing can be used for evil. The worst people always pretend to be the best and so forth, and so even the appearance of good is used for harm.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
the bible doesn't teach that the personality is resurrected. it may teach resurrection but it isn't the/a personality. the personality dies with the body. the Spirit is raised...
finally we agree on something! Me and Fool be mates!
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
If you have been following the forums long, you may have noticed that I'm whiny about Christianity but am still a Christian. There are a lot of practices that I don't like in Christianity today. I'm concerned about these practices damaging my relatives and which anger me. Specifically: the modern concept they call 'Worship', the Church Industry of Franchised Churches, the fake Bible seminaries that church out 'Ministers', and above all the practice of teaching children that death is not real. People often go to church, sit, listen, donate, leave and forget. I hate these things. One person in a thousand spends time working with the homeless or visits rest homes or prisons or orphanages.

At the same time, all of the people involved from the ministers to the church members to the organist who's just payed to be there -- they all have brains and all contribute good things to the world. They matter, and I have seen the damage that this kind of life can do to them. At the same time their views of church are integrated with their lives, and you can't just go changing people's lives. They really believe that their loved ones that have died are safe somewhere up in another dimension or in another place or that they will be brought back from death. This is a huge comfort for many. Taking it away is like taking candy away.

Also if everybody listened to one person (me) that would not be healthy for any concerned I think. Every time a persuasive religious leader pops up I think it does not really change much. It tends to justify their tendency to search for people to tell them things that they want to hear.

There is also a contradiction in my effort. I'm someone who believes in a very Biblical approach to Christianity, something that does not involve a personal afterlife. I think Christianity is supposed to be a community that grimly accepts personal death in order to contribute to life for all. It is a life of labor and selflessness, but you know what I am not actually living that way. I'm just observing what I think the Bible says about it. In that case I really do not have a personal stake in it. There's not much that I contribute at the moment. How would I ever get other people to commit to it?

IMO, it's not your job to save all those people. In the end, everyone is going to have to work it out for themselves.

You don't know what they all need really. All you can do is witness what works for you. If you are successful, if you succeed, folks are naturally going to see you as an example.

Best you can do is succeed for yourself and be an example for others to follow.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
If you have been following the forums long, you may have noticed that I'm whiny about Christianity but am still a Christian. There are a lot of practices that I don't like in Christianity today. I'm concerned about these practices damaging my relatives and which anger me. Specifically: the modern concept they call 'Worship', the Church Industry of Franchised Churches, the fake Bible seminaries that church out 'Ministers', and above all the practice of teaching children that death is not real. People often go to church, sit, listen, donate, leave and forget. I hate these things. One person in a thousand spends time working with the homeless or visits rest homes or prisons or orphanages.

At the same time, all of the people involved from the ministers to the church members to the organist who's just payed to be there -- they all have brains and all contribute good things to the world. They matter, and I have seen the damage that this kind of life can do to them. At the same time their views of church are integrated with their lives, and you can't just go changing people's lives. They really believe that their loved ones that have died are safe somewhere up in another dimension or in another place or that they will be brought back from death. This is a huge comfort for many. Taking it away is like taking candy away.

Also if everybody listened to one person (me) that would not be healthy for any concerned I think. Every time a persuasive religious leader pops up I think it does not really change much. It tends to justify their tendency to search for people to tell them things that they want to hear.

There is also a contradiction in my effort. I'm someone who believes in a very Biblical approach to Christianity, something that does not involve a personal afterlife. I think Christianity is supposed to be a community that grimly accepts personal death in order to contribute to life for all. It is a life of labor and selflessness, but you know what I am not actually living that way. I'm just observing what I think the Bible says about it. In that case I really do not have a personal stake in it. There's not much that I contribute at the moment. How would I ever get other people to commit to it?
Brick the American Evangelical voice itself has no walls. Today it's lost in a maze of its own plastic creation and is no longer music its muzak. Religion like anything but especially religion starts off as fire, it becomes lava, it hardens into rock and becomes synthetic plastic. The 2 great American evangelical voices of the 20th century are Martin Luther King and John Muir. I am most focused on Muir. That is an extra ordinary voice of presence.

Religion is at the end of the day not theology that's plastic its Presence. I am huge on root music pre recording before records pre literate folk mountain music. In evangelical tradition how great thou art is a spectacular song. It is well worth reading it's history. The song is INSPIRED by a huge instant thunderstorm as the author was walking home from church. NATURE BREATHED INTO SONG. TO INSPIRE TO BREATHE IN HOLY BREATH. It's in genisis!!!! Ha. The split between the word God And the word NATURE is the intellect killing nature dead. We have dead sun dead dirt dead dead air dead water. PRESENCE rejects that as plastic nonsense. Creationism?is not presence. Intelligent design? Is not presence? Random accidentalism? Is not presence all dead. We have abandoned our roots. Nature alive just like the old Swedish folk song how great thou art or extinction. Muir was a great evangelical voice to what presence is in the landscape. Burn the castle walls down its nonsense. Just like the old neil young song.
 
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