Should I Become A Jehovah's Witness?

[stvdv]

28 jul 2018 stvdv 020 50

An "ardent" devotee of God is devoted to God, not devoted to "belittling the religion/faith of others" as JWs do a lot. I have plenty of personal experience of this

Very simple to prove. I visited once a big meeting where all 6000 Dutch members were. I asked the below question and they assured me all agree with this:

"Do you believe JW religion is superior to reach God than other religions?". The answer was YES for all 6000. That means ALL are arrogant.

Of course I am open to be proven wrong here, and I really hope I find the first JW who can honestly answer the above question with a big fat NO

Don't get me wrong here, there is nothing wrong with "being arrogant", only with "being arrogant and claiming you are not". That is all I say

...... but you are belittling the JWs, true?

@oldbadger: NO I do NOT; you still don't get it [check questions below for proof]
When someone belittles the faith of others and I "put that in words" does NOT mean that I belittle them

It ONLY means that I "put in words" what they "put in action"

I do NOT belittle; I tell the Truth "that they belittle"

If that hurts, then they should stop it

Even if I meet 1 JW who says "I do not believe that way" answering NO on questions below, I would never say above again. Capito? They just won't say it. All said YES so far !:
"Do you believe JW religion[way of living] is superior than other religions[way of living]?". The answer was YES for all 6000 I met. That means ALL 6000 are arrogant.
"Do you believe JW religion[way of living] is superior than Atheism/Humanism[way of living]?".
And if they do NOT belittle they should just speak out "Atheism is as valuable as JW". I have never heard a JW say that, but I heard them say the opposite
[JW in Holland told me, that this is what JW worldwide believe. Which is fine. Which means they belittle. Just admit it. Don't act as if you don't belittle. that's all]

[If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probablyis a duck. The test implies that a person can identify an unknown subject by observing that subject's habitual characteristics.]

[Even If 1 JW answers NO [within 24h], I would edit this POST. You can even do a poll on RF, and prove me wrong. I love to pracitise saying "Sorry I was wrong". Whatever helps to kill my ego, I use]

 

[Deeje]

As you would already know, The Romans needed a Trinity because the people were used to and comfortable with three Gods. Roman Christianity had to be adapted to suit the people, and many Christians have just got used to such beliefs through continuous imprinting from childhood.

Its not hard to see where this doctrine came from, is it? Trinities of gods go way back to Babylon and have been hanging around in paganism ever since. Not surprising that apostate Christianity adopted it like a lost puppy. It grew into a big dog!

http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2009/11/trinity-and-pagan-influence.html

I wanted to post some pics but the site will not upload them for some reason.

Whenever I think of the word 'dogma' I always imagine a little child taking a huge dog for a walk. It has to be a huge dog or I might forget the rather large list of 'adaptations'.

LOL....

A big dog with saddle bags might be handy......?

 

[nPeace]

@RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha
Yes

You should become a witness of Jehovah - aka a Jehovah's Witness.
Here's why.

First let me start by saying, I did not think about posting this. It just came to me - snap! - like that.
Out of love for you, I responded.

Like I said before, I can't know what you are at heart, but I feel there is a lot of good there, and I think you and I have a few things in common.
For one thing - you seem honest.
You mentioned the bad things you have done, and I don't know, but you seem to be making some effort to leave them behind.
At least, the good thing is, you acknowledge that they are vices that the Father above is not pleased with. That shows you respect his word, and that's a big plus. Really a very good start.

Secondly - you seem to hate hypocrisy, which I hate as well, and honestly, Jehovah Witnesses are not perfect, so it's expected there will be some who act hypocritically.
This is because we are all learning something new - the way of love - true love - which is from the Father above, so it is not something that happens overnight. It takes time to cultivate.
Some of us are slow learners, so we take a bit longer than others, and some of us... well....we just don't learn at all - honestly, but that's not our business Remember this:
(1 John 3:10) . . .Whoever does not practice righteousness does not originate with God, nor does the one who does not love his brother.
(1 John 4:20) . . .If anyone says, “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For the one who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. . .
(1 John 3:15) . . .Everyone who hates his brother is a manslayer, and YOU know that no manslayer has everlasting life remaining in him.
These are not my words, so I think it's good we do well to remember them.

Third - like me, you hate that ridiculous Satanic lie - the theory of evolution - which is probably the biggest lie Satan has told yet.
I know @Subduction Zone you are ready to pounce on this with lightning speed, because you're like the fastest man on these forums - Flash Gordon don't stand a chance with you.
However, hold your horses. I'm not about to derail this thread. I'll be with you in a short while on the Watchmaker thread. I haven't responded as yet because this weekend I am attention a Convention with Jehovah's people, so I barely had any time, and I want to make sure I have enough time to slam the heaviest brick I can manage in that ridiculous nonsense - all caps. So be patient please.
Right. Where was I...
Yes. so @RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha we are doing as apostle Paul said,
(2 Corinthians 10:4-6) . . .For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things. 5 For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are bringing every thought into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ; 6 and we are prepared to inflict punishment for every disobedience, as soon as your own obedience is complete.

So that being said, here are just a few reasons you should become a Jehovah's Witness.
1. You recognize that they are not teaching the false doctrines found in Christendom - Eternal torment, Trinity, Immortality of the soul... to name a few. Instead, they endeavor to teach what the Bible says. So even though they may not get everything right, they try, and they do a good job, even if they have to agjust at times - they humbly do so.
2. They endeavor to follow and obey their master - the appointed king - Jesus Christ. So they don't shrink back from the work he commanded those following him, to do. They preach every day, from sun up to sun down, in every part of the world - even where they don't live, and in every language spoken on earth - even to the deaf and blind. All must get a witness.
Their message is the same as the message Jesus instructed his followers to preach. Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20.
Their methods are the same as the methods Jesus instructed his followers with - two by two, from house to house, in every village and town.
(Acts 5:42) . . .And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.
(Mark 6:7) . . .He now summoned the Twelve and started sending them out two by two,...
3. They try to show love to all, wherever they are, and for the most part they do. They have love among themselves, and they love their neighbor. They would never take part in wars, and they avoid racial prejudice.
All of this is evident. People know it.
4. You will be happier - guaranteed.

These are just a few reasons, but now - a little advice.
Don't ...
* become a Jehovah's Witness if you are seeking prominence or just thinking of you - you will be greatly disappointed.
(Galatians 5:26) . . .Let us not become egotistical, stirring up competition with one another, envying one another.
* focus on yourself. Instead focus on others, and how you can build them up, and encourage them.
(Philippians 2:3, 4) . . .Do nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with humility consider others superior to you, 4 as you look out not only for your own interests, but also for the interests of others.
* look for perfection - you won't find it.
* try to run before you can walk - Mature at your own pace.
(Galatians 6:4) . . .But let each one examine his own actions, and then he will have cause for rejoicing in regard to himself alone, and not in comparison with the other person.
* have one foot in, and one foot out - you won't like the consequences. Painful.

I could write a whole list, but i think I already wrote a lot, so let me conclude.
I think if you make the choice - and it's your choice, yours alone - to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses, you would be making the best choice,
However, that would depend entirely on your heart condition.

I hope this helps you with your little "wrestling".

 

[viole]

This is something I have been wrestling with since I picked up a Bible and became a believer. For the last 10 years or so I have repeatedly claimed that I would never join an organized religion, and therefore never become a Jehovah's Witness. Am I wrong in thinking that way?

I've attended meetings, and I loathed them. I hated wearing those ugly suits, for what? Who am I trying to impress? Did Jesus tell his disciples to go forth to the second hand store and buy ugly out of style suits smelling slightly of, what is that? Mothballs? Body odor? A three martini lunch? Or spend a ridiculous amount of money on new tailored suits?

I didn't like the repetitious nature of the study material and the rigid schedule of the meetings. I would much rather attend a casual gathering where questions and answers, just unscheduled discussion took place.

Am I being to critical?

I love the idea of going out in service, preaching the good news. I think I would be good at it. Couldn't I do that on my own?

Before becoming a baptized witness first you have to study a book of basic teaching, which takes what, about 6 months? That I've done twice before and enjoyed it. Casual discussion. I know all of the material, but that just makes it easier.

Also, after the study and everything in your life is cleaned of unchristian influences, i.e., drugs, alcohol, spiritism, unclean practices such as homosexuality, adultery, idolatry etc. there is a casual meeting with the Presiding Overseer of the congregation to determine if you are in line with their basic teachings and clear of the aforementioned tom foolery. Could I pass that?

I'm not sure.

Sure. I thought you were already one of those.

Ciao

- viole

 

[oldbadger]

NO I do NOT; you still don't get it [check questions below for proof]
When someone belittles the faith of others and I "put that in words" does NOT mean that I belittle them

No..... I still don't get it.
I still think that you do belittle the JW's faith.

 

[stvdv]

No..... I still don't get it.
I still think that you do belittle the JW's faith.

You did not answer the simple question in my previous post, which would clear all doubts

My answer to that question is "NO, I do not see my religion as superior, and I do not see JW as inferior"

Why can't you answer that simple question?

 

[oldbadger]

Its not hard to see where this doctrine came from, is it? Trinities of gods go way back to Babylon and have been hanging around in paganism ever since. Not surprising that apostate Christianity adopted it like a lost puppy. It grew into a big dog!

True.

I wanted to post some pics but the site will not upload them for some reason.

OK....
1. place cursor over required pic. 2. Right click, then left click on 'save as'. 3. Give pic a name for its thumbnail. 4. click on 'save. 5. then go to RF 'post reply' window and click on 'Upload a File' and follow RF instructions, selecting your saved pic .............

example follows from an internet pic........

A big dog with saddle bags might be handy......?

Woof woof!

 

[oldbadger]

You did not answer the simple question in my previous post, which would clear all doubts

My answer to that question is "NO, I do not see my religion as superior, and I do not see JW as inferior"

Why can't you answer that simple question?

............. because you shouted your own version of the answers out loud. When did you ever intend to take note of mine?

What I did see was stuff from your post such as this:-
I do NOT belittle; I tell the Truth "that they belittle"

Most religions that I know of believe that they are right and that they alone are right. I can acknowledge that. Obviously, as a Deist I believe that we are all part of the whole anyway, and that therefore everything is together..... I don't get any big-G points for being a Deist.

But the JWs are straight when they speak with me. They are also very honest. I mentioned to a JW that local JWs have a strong reputation for their honesty and integrity when doing jobs for people that I know. Do you know how he answered? He said,'We don't do it for you.' I get that..... absolutely, and I also get that he had to tell me his absolute truth about that....... yeah...... you can trust JWs, I reckon, because their faith is that strong, that they would not let anybody down even if they were religious 'foes'.

 

[stvdv]

............. because you shouted your own version of the answers out loud. When did you ever intend to take note of mine?

What I did see was stuff from your post such as this:-
I do NOT belittle; I tell the Truth "that they belittle"

Most religions that I know of believe that they are right and that they alone are right. I can acknowledge that. Obviously, as a Deist I believe that we are all part of the whole anyway, and that therefore everything is together..... I don't get any big-G points for being a Deist.

But the JWs are straight when they speak with me. They are also very honest. I mentioned to a JW that local JWs have a strong reputation for their honesty and integrity when doing jobs for people that I know. Do you know how he answered? He said,'We don't do it for you.' I get that..... absolutely, and I also get that he had to tell me his absolute truth about that....... yeah...... you can trust JWs, I reckon, because their faith is that strong, that they would not let anybody down even if they were religious 'foes'.

I started very mild, on a reply from JW Deeje in which she was belittling. Then you said I was belittling. And I explained I was not [not shouting]. Again you insisted I was belittling. After like 3 replies I put in all the shouting colors.

But nice for you, that you had good experiences with JW. I had not. And I read quite a few posts on RF with "belittling". I do not belittle. Because I believe that all humans have equal chances. I never evangelize, because I believe that JW will reach God also. So why should I evangelize. Why should I belittle. If I belittle anyone, I belittle God, that is what I believe.

If someone has the audacity to belittle the faith of others, he should be prepared that the other defends himself. If he can't handle that, then better don't belittle in the first place.

And by the way, if someone belittles JW, I also get up and defend JW. I have done in quite a few replies on RF. Surprised? That is how I am. I defend the ones who are belittled

 

[ADigitalArtist]

............. because you shouted your own version of the answers out loud. When did you ever intend to take note of mine?

What I did see was stuff from your post such as this:-
I do NOT belittle; I tell the Truth "that they belittle"

Most religions that I know of believe that they are right and that they alone are right. I can acknowledge that. Obviously, as a Deist I believe that we are all part of the whole anyway, and that therefore everything is together..... I don't get any big-G points for being a Deist.

But the JWs are straight when they speak with me. They are also very honest. I mentioned to a JW that local JWs have a strong reputation for their honesty and integrity when doing jobs for people that I know. Do you know how he answered? He said,'We don't do it for you.' I get that..... absolutely, and I also get that he had to tell me his absolute truth about that....... yeah...... you can trust JWs, I reckon, because their faith is that strong, that they would not let anybody down even if they were religious 'foes'.

I'm glad your local JW are honest folk. That was not my experience with JW in Portland or Austin on the whole. Those with a lot of honesty and personal integrity were the rarer sort. Those that put up a face for outsiders while they treated their families poorly were much more common.

 

[YmirGF]

I'm glad your local JW are honest folk. That was not my experience with JW in Portland or Austin on the whole. Those with a lot of honesty and personal integrity were the rarer sort. Those that put up a face for outsiders while they treated their families poorly were much more common.

Although I think their proselytizing endeavors are dishonest, the JW's I have known in real life were very kind souls. At the very least, they mean well.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Although I think their proselytizing endeavors are dishonest, the JW's I have known in real life were very kind souls. At the very least, they mean well.

I had already left because I realized that I was only pretending to not be an atheist when I clearly was. But one of the things that sealed the deal was a couple I knew lied to their daughter and told them her brother was missing. They did this because she is an ex-JW and the brother was leaving his wife after an abusive relationship. The parents were worried she might 'tempt him away in his time of doubt.' They would rather let her be worried and upset for her brother, thinking he was missing, than risk the possibility she would say something bad about the organization.

Lying, deceit and abuse are something that happen in JW families I assume at the same rate as everyone else, which means good and bad folk. But the bad folk are given all the tools and incentive to hide it, let it fester. The negative environment this created in the congregations I was in was enough to lay low the most optimistic individuals. The best JW I know were the least attending meetings for that reason.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Although I think their proselytizing endeavors are dishonest, the JW's I have known in real life were very kind souls. At the very least, they mean well.

Apology after the fact for story time. xD

 

[Deeje]

I'm glad your local JW are honest folk. That was not my experience with JW in Portland or Austin on the whole. Those with a lot of honesty and personal integrity were the rarer sort. Those that put up a face for outsiders while they treated their families poorly were much more common.

I am very sorry that you found people who did the wrong thing in my brotherhood....but one thing stands out clearly for me. I had a relative who was prone to pointing out the flaws in some JW's he knew. He used those few as an excuse to not listen to any JW in the future. My response to him was..."you think God is not aware of those who put on a pretence of being his people? You think that by wearing a label and putting on a front they will somehow fool our judge? He will deal with them accordingly....meanwhile he will come to you and say, "I have dealt with them, now what's your excuse for not serving me?" What will you say to him?"
He had no answer.

I believe that we will each render an account to God for ourselves. What people do matters because Jesus said "woe to the one through whom the stumbling comes"......but woe to those who allow it to give them an excuse not to serve the true God, whom we all must face when the final judgment comes.

 

[wandering peacefully]

"It gives my life meaning and purpose. It helps me to focus on the future with confidence instead of despair in the present circumstances, because I know why this life is so hard and fraught with so many problems."

Well, thank you for all that information. I'm glad you have found something that you and your children can believe in that makes you feel as though you have a purpose. And that will help you with your problems so you don't feel despair. That's not a good way to live and I wish you the best in your endeavors.

I am already enjoying this wonderful and love filled life. The one I am in right now. So the beliefs about the unknowable and fretting away about death just isn't for me.

Thanks for your post.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I am very sorry that you found people who did the wrong thing in my brotherhood....but one thing stands out clearly for me. I had a relative who was prone to pointing out the flaws in some JW's he knew. He used those few as an excuse to not listen to any JW in the future. My response to him was..."you think God is not aware of those who put on a pretence of being his people? You think that by wearing a label and putting on a front they will somehow fool our judge? He will deal with them accordingly....meanwhile he will come to you and say, "I have dealt with them, now what's your excuse for not serving me?" What will you say to him?"
He had no answer.

I believe that we will each render an account to God for ourselves. What people do matters because Jesus said "woe to the one through whom the stumbling comes"......but woe to those who allow it to give them an excuse not to serve the true God, whom we all must face when the final judgment comes.

Like I said, my reason for leaving had little to do with the behavior (I simply don't believe in gods. On subsequent attempts to join churches it all felt like lip service, despite several sermons and recommendations to 'try harder.'). And I still kept some JW friends after the event. But I also lost some. And became warrier of kingdom halls and especially elders and pioneers who consistently made, in my opinion, the wrong decisions regarding some very toxic behavior. The friends I kept, unsurprisingly, were the most liberal of the bunch. And I doubt that will ever change.

 

[oldbadger]

I'm glad your local JW are honest folk. That was not my experience with JW in Portland or Austin on the whole. Those with a lot of honesty and personal integrity were the rarer sort. Those that put up a face for outsiders while they treated their families poorly were much more common.

How did they treat their families poorly?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

How did they treat their families poorly?

I talked a bit about it here: https://www.religiousforums.com/thr...a-jehovahs-witness.211006/page-7#post-5717654 but the cliffsnotes the son fled from the church and family because discussing divorce even to a psychologically and physically abusive spouse was looked down on by family and congregation, and they lied to their non-JW daughter because they were afraid she would 'tempt him away' and let her believe he was missing.

I ran into several occasions where neglect and abuse were dusted under the rug. I don't imagine the actual cases of abuse were higher than the norm, just that they exist and nobody in my experience talks about it. Especially not with outsiders to the faith.

 

[oldbadger]

I talked a bit about it here: https://www.religiousforums.com/thr...a-jehovahs-witness.211006/page-7#post-5717654 but the cliffsnotes the son fled from the church and family because discussing divorce even to a psychologically and physically abusive spouse was looked down on by family and congregation, and they lied to their non-JW daughter because they were afraid she would 'tempt him away' and let her believe he was missing.

I did enter your link but the page would not open. No matter, the above precis shows me nothing...,... nothing at all. It features claims made by a grown son and allegations of lies to a non-JW...... if you think that this is a reason for the Watchtower to disband or for folks mistrust the JWs then I reckon you're really clutching at straws.

If any spouse was being abused criminally then all they needed to do was to 1. call police. 2. make allegations. 3. make a signed statement. 4. support a police prosecution. 5. attend the court case and give evidence...... and this didn't happen, I'm guessing. Thousands of folks make claims against their partners, lovers, spouses each day, and thousands of friends and relatives who don't know better stick their necks out to find that they are left high and dry legally.

I ran into several occasions where neglect and abuse were dusted under the rug. I don't imagine the actual cases of abuse were higher than the norm, just that they exist and nobody in my experience talks about it. Especially not with outsiders to the faith.

What neglect and what abuse, please?
You witnessed this yourself, so please tell us what you saw........

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I did enter your link but the page would not open. No matter, the above precis shows me nothing...,... nothing at all. It features claims made by a grown son and allegations of lies to a non-JW...... if you think that this is a reason for the Watchtower to disband or for folks mistrust the JWs then I reckon you're really clutching at straws.

If any spouse was being abused criminally then all they needed to do was to 1. call police. 2. make allegations. 3. make a signed statement. 4. support a police prosecution. 5. attend the court case and give evidence...... and this didn't happen, I'm guessing. Thousands of folks make claims against their partners, lovers, spouses each day, and thousands of friends and relatives who don't know better stick their necks out to find that they are left high and dry legally.


What neglect and what abuse, please?
You witnessed this yourself, so please tell us what you saw........

Yeah this is the same sort of apologetics I heard after the internalized abuse coverups in the Catholic church, too. Anyone who didn't go to the police must be lying, because that's how insular communities with abuse work, right? https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...ccused-of-silencing-victims-of-child-abuse-uk The son was even told to not go to a marriage counselor outside the faith, they didn't even rate it as a police worthy problem, just talk to the elders about it.

I saw non-JW family members being disowned, disavowed, cast into homelessness. Literally a disabled woman I knew evicted by family because she came out as practicing homosexual. Granted, this was in the early 90's. Belittled and scorned. My congregation constantly tried to drive a wedge between me and my non-believing parents even though they were super supportive but uninterested in converting. All non-believing spouses were treated as a burden to endure. You look at some of the people I knew and see the carefully crafted external visage they put on to maximize converts, but behind closed doors there are a lot of problems that you're not supposed to know about.

The 'they seem like nice people' thing everyone says about the neighbors who turned out to have bodies buried beneath the house. Not equivocating, just using a turn of phrase

Although there has been lawsuits from denying blood transfusions to minors who ended up dying, but hey, that was not one of my personal experiences.

Anyway, I still have JW friends, the most liberal sort. But I dont trust the Watchtower organization. Too authoritarian and too isolationist.