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Featured Should I Become A Jehovah's Witness?

Discussion in 'Seekers Circle' started by Earthling, Jul 25, 2018.

  1. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Right. I didn't mean comfortable, as in comfortable where we are, but comfortable with our decision - meaning, we feel certain we made the right choice, and it is what we understand is required of us.
    That's very important, I think. Don't you agree?
    Just clarifying.
     
  2. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I understand what you are feeling, but one can love and still get angry.
    Look at Jesus. When he cleared the temple of the religious robbers, I don't imagine it was a pretty sight



    ...but he did love them, and it was his hope that they changed.
    Nevertheless, he wasn't happy about their serpent-like deception, which was affecting the ordinary people in a negative way.

    I'm not saying whether RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha is being serpent-like or not. I can't judge that. One there is to judge.
    However, neither can we judge Deeje for how she feels about what she considers not tolerating what can be considered defamatory judgment.

    So when we look at it closely - Just take a step back and look at the scene closely. Doesn't it seem like everyone is judging?
    ...and don't we all have the right to make judgments... to a reasonable degree? :)
     
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  3. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I like your honesty. :grinning:
     
  4. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    So you mean it doesn't matter what God's view is on dress, according to the scriptures?
    (1 Timothy 2:9) . . .the women should adorn themselves in appropriate dress, with modesty and soundness of mind. . .

    If it's not about self, we make adjustments to please God, and not stumble others.
    In fact Jesus said that stumbling others is so bad, one may as well commit suicide - not that he would want for anyone to do that though :D- so avoid stumbling others. Matthew 18:6
     
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  5. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    There could be....but what do their leaders themselves usually do? Oh, there may be a few who protest, but by and large the majority support their national heritage, over their spiritual one. During a fight, their love for their brother (John 13:35), and love for their enemy (Matthew 5:44), ends at the border!

    What is God's view? He doesn't prefer any nation over another...He simply looks at individuals. -- Acts of the Apostles 10:34-35
     
  6. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    That is a bit tricky.

    The Bible as well as other Scriptures give us plenty of "advises" to follow [giving advise does not imply God getting angry if not followed]

    And God is the "Eternal Witness", so He won't get mad at the girl wearing minis. He won't judge her wearing minis.

    Of course one should not offend others. But you can't offend God, after all He calls us "His Children" having "Unconditional Love"

    Have you ever thought about "God getting mad". Genesis declares "God created heaven and earth by His Word". Would be disastrous God getting "mad", don't you think?
    [He created human in His image. If humans get "mad" they start shouting. Better not have God start "shouting His Word", Oh My God, that would mean serious trouble]

    My Master says that God "Loves Unconditional" and will not judge, being the "Eternal Witness"
    But He also says "better die than tell a lie [even not a white one]"
    But still He says "God will Love you the eitherway"
    Just better for yourself to follow God's advices
    [This makes sense to me, so I believe this]
     
  7. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I have always found you to be fair minded Adrian.

    This is a problem when considering Paul's counsel at 1 Corinthians 1:10. We can't be in two minds. We have to decide what is the truth and commit to it without reservation. It has to be all or nothing. If you want to do your own thing....then choose another church. Provided of course that you can find one that supports your beliefs.

    The internet is full of people who have had their feelings hurt and have reacted badly. They go off on tangents to get even, but in reality all they do is alienate themselves from God. Once you learn the truth, you can't go back to not knowing it. If you leave and go elsewhere, you have to ignore what you can no longer believe. I don't see too many ex-JW's returning to Christendom, nor do I see them congregating together to form their own 'revised' religion free from the 'incorrect things' that we apparently teach. They just seem to remain outside lost and complaining for some reason.

    You can't "join" Jehovah's Witnesses any more than you can "join" Christianity. Its not a club. You have to learn what God's requirements are and "become" the kind of person that Jesus approves as his disciple. This leads to baptism which means a symbolic death to ones former life and a rising again to a new life of service to God as a disciple of his son. It requires commitment to the doing of God's will first in your life, and a genuine love of God that motivates your daily life. If a person isn't prepared to do that, then they shouldn't even think about it. If you have no brotherhood, you can't call yourself a Christian. (Hebrews 10:24-25)

    When you consider that there are many here at RF who would imagine becoming one of Jehovah's Witnesses to be a great mistake for anyone, asking such people the OP question would be tantamount to asking someone Jewish if they should become a Christian? What answer would you expect?

    God doesn't accept people as they are.....if they are living a life of sin, he asks them to change, and he gives them instruction and ample opportunity to do so. Our spiritual battles are our own and only we can deal with them. But surely it must be God's help that we seek first?

    Jesus basically echoed his Father's teachings. How much time does a person need to make a decision about something they have known for most of their lives?

    As Elijah said to the Baal worshiping Israelites...."If Jehovah is the true God, then go and serve him, but if Baal is, go serve him".

    I admit it...I get very frustrated dealing with indecisive people. So I deliberately pushed his buttons to see his true colors.....and I didn't have to wait long, did I?

    I find it very toxic to deal with people who swing like a see-saw between love and hate, so I prefer to stay away from them.

    To me it is cut and dried.....make up you mind and stick to your decision. Is it really that hard? :shrug:

    Matthew 5:37...."But let your word ‘yes’ be ‘yes,’ and your ‘no’ be ‘no. Anything more than this is from the evil one."

    That is enough for me.
     
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  8. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Again I want to thank you for your own honesty. OB. [​IMG]

    We like to tell it like it is.....but people don't like honesty....they want you to tickle their ears.

    As Paul said...."Preach the word; be at it urgently in favorable times and difficult times; reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all patience and art of teaching. 3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled. 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories. 5 You, though, keep your senses in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelizer, fully accomplish your ministry." (2 Tim 4:2-5)

    We try. [​IMG]
     
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  9. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I don't get frustrated with indecisive people
    I am glad your buttons were pushed and you showed your real colors though
    I find it toxic to deal with people who are very judgmental and projecting it on others

    To me it is cut and dried ... Make up my own mind and stay out of the mind of others; So I won't proseyltize

    Personally I almost never read the Bible, but I do like this verse myself:
    Mathew 7: 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
     
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  10. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

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    God mandated many acts of violence and war in the Bible.

    But this thread is not in a debate section. If you want to debate, start a thread and tag me.
     
  11. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    While I'm personally familiar with the dullness from beyond outer space that is the JWs, there are tens of millions of evangelicals in America alone, and most of us don't go to any kind of church like you've described, AT ALL.
     
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  12. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Which way to the woods?
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    "Our children do not grow up uneducated I assure you. They get to speak with all kinds of people and listen to all sorts of responses. Our kids are usually very mature for their age because they have a well rounded education, both spiritually and at school."


    What schools do they attend and what curriculum are they taught? What religious ideas outside of your own are they exposed to?


    "They are free to choose whatever education will equip them for life in this system of things, as long as it lasts. Do we concentrate on making lots of money? No, for the simple reason that money cannot buy you life or happiness. (Luke 12:15)"

    No, money does not buy happiness I agree. But it is necessary in order to survive in this country.


    "If you think being free to think for yourself without God's guidance is a good thing, take a look at today's youth with its drug and alcohol dependence and addiction to violent video games. Isn't that just another sick form of brain washing? Is that really thinking for yourself?"

    I agree that commercialism is out of control here but that is nothing too recent. And I don't agree children need a god for guidance. They need educated, intelligent and loving parents who show them the value of being a kind, generous, and responsible human being. I know because I have raised 5 of them and they have all of those qualities and no gods were involved.


    "True happiness comes from giving, not receiving. We try to concentrate on the giving....and we are happier than most because of it."

    Absolutely agree.

    "A life blessed by God and a clean conscience have no equal.[/QUOTE]"

    Maybe, but it it not a prerequisite or requirement.



    I have a clean conscious, always help others when I can, help and care for the environment, try to change what I can politically by serving and remaining informed and involved, love my children and grandchildren and always treat them with love and respect, am peaceful and often happy with my lot in life, desire no material possessions other that what I have and need (except a jet ski).



    Can you please explain to me why I am immoral, wrong headed, sinful, and exactly why I should need a god which I don't believe in? I have previously experienced faith, belief in the God, Jesus and other types of spiritual beliefs and seekings. But I now understand they are just beliefs. And depending on my culture, time, and location, my beliefs will vary and no two are the same. What makes you believe your beliefs are the only correct ones?

    What exactly does adding God to your life do for you that you don't feel capable of doing yourself? And do you believe out of the hundreds of thousands of religions and belief systems that have come and gone, you have the only correct one? If so, why not the others?
     
  13. Jim

    Jim Nets of Wonder

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    Until now I couldn’t think of anything to say that might help, but now I have some ideas. One is to be very careful not to compromise your honesty, integrity, and fairness to others, in deciding to join and in saying what you think you need to say, to be accepted. Another thought is to consider, apart from whatever you might agree with in the ideology, and answering the call of God, what personal benefits you might see in becoming a member, and ask God not to let those misguide you. Also, ask Him to grant those to you somehow, whether you become a member or not.

    I’m not sure I know what your interests really are. If it’s really for love of God, then try to understand what all your personal motives might be and with God’s help detach yourself from them, trusting them into His hands. Then try to consider only if you can do His work better as a member, or not. Also, ask God and consider whether there might be any other communities that you might want to look at, before you join that one.
     
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  14. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Member

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    Here is the problem you have with your scriptures you use. Your “bible” inserts “Jehovah” for “Lord” or “God.” Our bibles don’t. Now, does that mean the Lord is not Jehovah? No. But you use circular reasoning with your claims because of it. There are 3 members of the Godhead. But you only recognize Jehovah. And not in context with the Christianity version on the Trinity 3-in-1. And, you don’t recognize Jesus is Jehovah.
     
  15. Cougarbear

    Cougarbear Member

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    While I’m not a JW, I question your question. What do you mean to reach God? There are 3 levels of heaven and Paul saw the 3rd or highest. And Paul said only through baptism of water and fire through faith in Jesus Christ can one reach the highest or 3rd heaven. Read 1Corinthians chapter 15 about the 3 glories it heavens. If you don’t believe Jesus and Jehovah are the same personage then how do you get to the 3rd heaven where our Father in Heaven is?
     
  16. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    ...... but you are belittling the JWs, true?
     
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  17. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    What in the world are you talking about? I AM. Is that some special code phrase for becoming God? Ridiculous. Jehovah is the 'Father' He is the almighty God. Jesus is the son, he is a mighty god, but not almighty God. They are not the same. The holy spirit? It isn't a person, it's a thing. It's Jehovah God's active spirit. The word Holy means belonging to God, the word spirit means an invisible active force.
     
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  18. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Our children by and large attend public schools and are educated in the same way as any other children. Some parents, who have the circumstances, have chosen to home school their children because of the atmosphere at many public schools. When you consider that school occupies most of their waking hours, they absorb a great deal from their peers who may not be the best influence for them. Kids are impressionable and peer pressure is no small influence in their lives.

    They also accompany us in our preaching work so they are not shielded from the beliefs of others. The exposure is good for them as it gives them a broad view as to what others believe. It gives us many opportunities for discussion on a lot of topics. Life is our best education.


    Jehovah's Witnesses are found in every nation on earth, so we come from a vast range of economic backgrounds. We all try to have the same attitude towards material things. You don't have to be rich to be materialistic. Its the "wanting" that can be overpowering and the wanting can sometimes lead to crime or bad decisions.(1 Timothy 6:10)

    I remember a quote I heard once....."contentment means wanting what you have, not having what you want".
    I think that sums up what the Bible recommends....being content with what you have. Chasing after the never ending stream of "things" that people "must have" is a trap. They end up being a slave to their consumerism.
    Their children end up being the victims of their parents' insatiable need for "things". Kids don't need "things" they need parents who are there for them, guiding them intelligently and pointing out the pitfalls.

    There are many good humanitarians in this world who are educated, intelligent and loving.....and we are grateful for them. Its a shame that their combined efforts are not enough to stop the rot that eating away at our children and society in general. If you have raised 5 children successfully, then good for you.....but how many people can actually say that? You are in a small minority.

    They still have to deal with the world created by greedy and unscrupulous humans.

    We humans are unique in that we have a faculty of conscience that can slap us around if we have done the wrong thing by someone....or even ourselves. Having a clean conscience is a good thing compared to living with regrets and the consequences of actions that seemed right at the time.

    Well....that is good for you. But the world is not made up of people like you and others with good intentions and motives (not driven by religious consciousness) concerning the planet and their fellow man. We are drowning in the results of other peoples mistakes, deliberate evil actions and greed.

    No one seems to be able to stop the rot and the problems just keep escalating. What are the good humanitarians doing outside of their own lives to address the problems that are affecting all mankind? It will take a power greater than man's to fix this mess. The Bible gives us the assurance that this will happen, but only when humans realize that they are completely inept when it comes to ruling themselves. Are we there yet? :shrug:

    That is an excellent question. I don't think I ever said that you are immoral or wrong headed....but "sinful" is something we all are. It simply means that we fall short of the perfection with which God first created humans.

    It is true that not all humans will seek God, but many will seek the truth and have that inexplicable feeling that life should have meaning beyond mere existence. That our questions about life should have answers. We humans are unique in this and seem to have an inbuilt desire to know why we are here are where we are going? We see death as an enemy and old age as an affront...like it shouldn't happen, and yet that has been our lot since the beginning.

    Your experience with 'faith and seeking' was apparently unsuccessful and with good reason. You were barking up the wrong tree.

    I have heard it illustrated this way......"how can you hide a 40 ft tree out in the middle of a cleared field?" The answer is, "you can't"....unless you have time up your sleeve. The best way to hide that tree is to plant a forest of similar looking trees all around it and wait for them to grow. As time goes on, and the trees all grow to a height of 40 ft, it will be almost impossible to find the original tree, unless you are aware of its unique features.

    That 40ft tree is Christianity, planted by Jesus. In his illustration of the "wheat and the weeds" he tells us that an enemy sowed similar looking plants in the same field as he planted the wheat. The sowers were concerned that the weeds would choke the wheat so they offered to go and pull them out. Jesus said no, lest you accidentally uproot some of the wheat....let them both grow together until the harvest time, then the two will be clearly distinguishable.

    We are approaching the harvest time right now. A time when the weeds all look the same, but the wheat are completely different. There is no mistaking them now because they do not resemble one another at all.
    Looking in Christendom to find the wheat, your search will be fruitless....they are all just different branded versions of the same false doctrines. In this "time of the end" we have to look for the ones who are different....completely different. But their difference will be a good kind of different to those seeking the truth.
    That was my experience. When I heard the Bible's truth and read it for myself in my own Bible, it was like a light bulb moment that made me hungry for more.

    It is a conviction and it is based on something no one can truly quantify....Faith. When you read the Bible and it opens up possibilities that you have never entertained before, something happens to unlock a capacity for spirituality that you never knew was there. That is how it was for me. But it wasn't just what I read, it was having the guidance of someone who had also had that same experience. This is the whole foundation of Christianity.....Christians spawn other Christians by sharing their knowledge and experience. I am now able to share mine.

    It gives my life meaning and purpose. It helps me to focus on the future with confidence instead of despair in the present circumstances, because I know why this life is so hard and fraught with so many problems.
    I can look beyond the present and see a bright future for myself and my family on into eternity, because that is how long my heart wants to live. Who of us with a reasonable level of health wants to die and leave our loved ones? Who wants to lose a loved one in death due to accident or disease? Death is so final and we who have lost our nearest and dearest still grieve for them no matter how much time has gone by. I now understand why we have those feelings, and how they fit into the big picture.

    I have looked at all the fake trees that Jesus said were planted by the devil and found them devoid of what the original tree had as its 'fertilizer'....truth. There is something inside us humans that "knows" when something rings true. (John 8:32)

    Its like someone gave me the box that all the jig saw pieces came in and I can see in the picture where all the pieces fit.
    That is the best way I can describe it. I look at the whole Bible as one work (one box with all the pieces) and I can now see why everything happened the way it did, and what we can draw from it.

    But most importantly for me, was the way it describes the future.....if you look at what man sees as the future for this planet, I'm afraid that he is sorely deficient in providing the means to bring about any change for the better. We are drowning in our own waste, poisoning our environment and suffocating the planet itself.....killing its ability to sustain life. What will man come up with to remedy this situation? He is at present very short on answers. Are you confident in his ability to do anything but talk about the problems? Some good humanitarians are trying their best to address some of the more distressing problems but they are overwhelmed by the magnitude of it. Are you?
     
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  19. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Well, I was raised with the trinity and I can tell you that it never made a lick of sense to me even before I became a JW. The circular reasoning was all in the church.They tried to make sense of it but always reverted to it being a "mystery". IOW, it had no explanation.

    When I studied the Bible (the KJV that my grandmother gave me when I was 10 years old) I found so many reasons to discard the trinity as the greatest hoax in "Christianity". It blasphemes the Father by placing the son on equal footing, thereby breaking the first commandment. And it treats the holy spirit as a third "person" in this so called godhead.

    From memory, I believe that the KJV retains the tetragrammaton (YHWH) in only 4 places, yet it is in the Hebrew text almost 7,000 times. The scripture that stood out among those 4 however, was Psalm 83:18 which says...."That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth." (KJV)

    So your Bible has God's name in it too. Surprised? I was. No one had ever shown that to me in 20 odd years of Sunday School and Church...and yet I was shown it in my own Bible for the first time.

    I was told that Mormons were not trinitarians...was I misinformed? :shrug:

    There is no trinity in the Bible. There is no "godhead" either.

    Colossians 2:9-10 in the KJV reads...."For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power "

    In actuality, all the older versions of the Bible, usually translated by trinitarian scholars who had less knowledge of the meanings of the original languages, render that word "theotēs" as "Godhead". Interestingly, this word is used only once in the Greek scriptures. But later or more modern versions have changed it to something more related to the original Greek word from which it is taken "theos" (God) and rendered it "fullness of Deity" or related to God as in being "divine".

    Here it is in the Mounce Interlinear.....
    "For hoti in en him autos the ho whole pas fullness plērōma of ho deity theotēs dwells katoikeō in bodily sōmatikōs form and kai you have eimi come to fullness plēroō in en him autos, who hos is eimi the ho head kephalē of every pas principality archē and kai power exousia."

    So this is saying that in Jesus Christ, there was a "fullness" of divine nature and you can see in the next verse that this "fullness" had also come to Christ's disciples who were anointed with God's spirit as Jesus was.

    No one can deny that Jesus was a divine messenger sent by God to earth to fulfill a very important mission, but this is not saying that Jesus is Jehovah. It is not suggesting that his disciples who also receive this "fullness" are part of the trinity god either.

    In Colossians 1:15-17 Paul says of Jesus...
    "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
    16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

    17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."


    Paul tells us that Jesus is the "image" of his Father. Not God himself but a reflection, a representation of God's qualities in human form.

    At Revelation 3:14 Jesus' message to the Loadiceans is....."These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God"

    Jesus is a creation of his God and Father, his "firstborn"..."only begotten". He was brought into existence before all things by his Creator.

    If you would like a list of scripture detailing all the reasons why the trinity is completely unsubstantiated in scripture, then just say the word.

    Perhaps you can provide one scripture where Jesus himself actually confesses to being God incarnate?
    Just one will do. :)
     
    #119 Deeje, Jul 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
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  20. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    As you would already know, The Romans needed a Trinity because the people were used to and comfortable with three Gods. Roman Christianity had to be adapted to suit the people, and many Christians have just got used to such beliefs through continuous imprinting from childhood.

    Whenever I think of the word 'dogma' I always imagine a little child taking a huge dog for a walk. It has to be a huge dog or I might forget the rather large list of 'adaptations'.
     
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