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Should God allow babies to be born with serious deformities or diseases?
- Thread starter retrorich
- Start date
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
Retrorich, you claim to be Atheist. So why are you asking questions about what "God" allows and doesn't allow, when you don't believe a god even exists?retrorich said:
retrorich
SUPER NOT-A-MOD
Maize:Maize said:
I like to "test" my atheism by seeing if religious people can provide information that might allow me to accept the existence of God.
For more information on my beliefs and nonbeliefs, please see:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2228&page=2
Lightkeeper
Well-Known Member
I wonder if your question is really "Should we allow babies with deformities and diseases be born?"
Mr Spinkles
Mr
If we had the power to stop it, I would say yes, we should.
Blame mankind and his evil inclination/hasatan.
God looked upon his creation, and declared it very good!
Man chose knowledge, man should use it to cure, fix and do good.
God has promised to restore his good works, in the fullness of time. There will be a Ruler with an Iron Rod, those, in his restored good works will have to be obedient,or else, He will not carry that rod in vain.
No babies, sick or deformed, just perfection. In Gods Good Works the Olam Habah/World to Come.
God looked upon his creation, and declared it very good!
Man chose knowledge, man should use it to cure, fix and do good.
God has promised to restore his good works, in the fullness of time. There will be a Ruler with an Iron Rod, those, in his restored good works will have to be obedient,or else, He will not carry that rod in vain.
No babies, sick or deformed, just perfection. In Gods Good Works the Olam Habah/World to Come.
Hope
Princesinha
As awful as being born with deformities or diseases is, who are we to say who should or shouldn't be born? Shouldn't everyone be given a chance at life? We are assuming that just because someone has a deformity or disease then that means they must wish that rather they were dead or never existed. Some of the bravest and most inspiring people there are are those who have had to overcome these kinds of obstacles in their lives.
I would never place myself in this same group of brave people--but I do want to use myself as kind of an example. I was not born with a disease, but I contracted one at a very early age, and have gone through much pain in my life because of it. If my parents had known in advance that I would get this disease, would I wish that they had aborted me? Absolutely not! I am still glad to be alive, regardless of the physical pain I have had to put up with, and will continue to put up with for the rest of my life. Life is what you make of it. It is sad that people are born with deformities and such, but I think they should have a right to live just like everyone else. If we all knew every pain and heartache that awaited every person before they were born, and decided on this basis that perhaps they shouldnt be born at all, then the whole of the human race would likely die off.
I would never place myself in this same group of brave people--but I do want to use myself as kind of an example. I was not born with a disease, but I contracted one at a very early age, and have gone through much pain in my life because of it. If my parents had known in advance that I would get this disease, would I wish that they had aborted me? Absolutely not! I am still glad to be alive, regardless of the physical pain I have had to put up with, and will continue to put up with for the rest of my life. Life is what you make of it. It is sad that people are born with deformities and such, but I think they should have a right to live just like everyone else. If we all knew every pain and heartache that awaited every person before they were born, and decided on this basis that perhaps they shouldnt be born at all, then the whole of the human race would likely die off.
Paraprakrti
Custom User
retrorich said:
"Baby" is just a body. Later it becomes "toddler", then "youth". Then on to "adult"... "elder" until it eventually is discarded.
As long as we are talking of God, let us also address the individual soul. The question then is why are these souls being placed in varying positions? Some dwell in the bodies of healthy babies, while others take shelter in diseased or deformed bodies. The answer is that although these souls may not have chosen to be in such a condition, they did make previous choices that led to that affliction. This concept is called "Karma". I am sure most everyone is familiar with it. God allows us to remain in karma so long as we demand it. Otherwise, we seek to know our positions and that constitutes knowing God. By living in our spiritual position in relation to God we immediately transcend our karma.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Hope-- I hope that some day you will be freed of your disease.Hope said:It's the times when I'm really suffering physically, that my faith is an incredible comfort to me. Knowing that this life is not all there is, and that some day I will have a restored body, perfect and without disease, gives me a wonderful hope.
I do not demand to remain in karma, nor have I ever demanded it. I'm asking God right now to be freed of karma and you are all witnesses.
*ten minutes later* Have I transcended karma yet?
Paraprakrti
Custom User
Mr_Spinkles said:
Your memory is insufficient. You simply don't remember.
Asking God to free you of Karma means surrendering yourself to God. If you were really doing this then you would be free of karma, and it would be completely apparent to you.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
That's what I said to my friend who promised to give me a million dollars, but he didn't beleive me.
But seriously, Parapraktri, what you're saying doesn't make any sense--do you really think that people who are born with deformities and diseases demanded this from God? I don't buy that, I think this is a clear case of blaming the victim.
I surrender already! What more does your god want, a white flag?
Ceridwen018
Well-Known Member
Maybe carts of gold, harems of virgins, and boxes of chocolate would suffice. Wait--that was Cortes' demand of the Aztecs!
I personally don't think it's right for god to allow babies to be born with severe deformities or diseases. I don't think it's right for god to allow deformities and diseases period. What's the point? Does he enjoy watching us suffer, especially the most harmless of creatures--a baby?
I personally don't think it's right for god to allow babies to be born with severe deformities or diseases. I don't think it's right for god to allow deformities and diseases period. What's the point? Does he enjoy watching us suffer, especially the most harmless of creatures--a baby?
Lightkeeper
Well-Known Member
There's another way to look at this. With our advanced medical techniques and medicines, more babies are being born than were many years ago. It seems that we are the one's allowing the deformed and diseased to be born. Doesn't the medical field and the science field in general try to outGod God?
cvipertooth
Member
When god creates a person, is it not the soul that he look at? Physical deformities are only seen as a bad thing by people, who are worldly. When they die, as all people do, they will be given a perfect body in heaven.
Lightkeeper
Well-Known Member
I like this reply. It is a good point.
Paraprakrti
Custom User
Mr_Spinkles said:That's what I said to my friend who promised to give me a million dollars, but he didn't beleive me.
Well, what can you do?
Mr_Spinkles said:
I believe that although we lack the perception to perceive it, reason exists behind everything. And I don't just apply that reason to a gross physical level. I also apply it to the subtle reality. Consciousness plays a big part in where we take birth. I ultimately don't believe in "victims". We may not see how someone has come to certain abominable conditions, but our lack of perception should force us to conclude that life is merely random events of suffering. Although he is an atheist, I like how George Carlin put it:
"I'm tired of hearing about innocent victims. It's fiction. If you live on this planet you're guilty, period, **** you, next case, end of report. Your birth certificate is proof of guilt." -George Carlin
This to me is interesting because I follow that the soul is transcendental. But somehow or another it has fallen into this world of birth, death, disease and old age. Some choice we made from time immemorial that caused us to fall here. Now, if we hadn't fallen here in the first place we wouldn't have to worry about being susceptible to disease or deformity.
Mr_Spinkles said:
That's between you and God. He knows your sincerity.
Ardhanariswar
I'm back!
"I do not demand to remain in karma, nor have I ever demanded it. I'm asking God right now to be freed of karma and you are all witnesses.
*ten minutes later* Have I transcended karma yet?"
you should not dislike the concept of karma, yet you should dislike the concept of samsara (death rebirth cycle) and try to escape it. karma helps you, you can escape it if you do good deeds, think good thoughts, be alturistic and loving and compassionate for everything and life your life to the fullest.
*ten minutes later* Have I transcended karma yet?"
you should not dislike the concept of karma, yet you should dislike the concept of samsara (death rebirth cycle) and try to escape it. karma helps you, you can escape it if you do good deeds, think good thoughts, be alturistic and loving and compassionate for everything and life your life to the fullest.