Should establishments that skirt mask bans allow smoking?

[Meow Mix]

Since the mask debate is framed in terms of “personal freedoms” to expel whatever dangerous things into enclosed airspaces we want, I wondered if the question is relevant.

(for context, I’m a smoker that agrees with indoor smoking bans for the protection of others’ health)

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

It's relevant I think, but it's not really about "personal freedoms" but political party wedge issues.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

It's relevant I think, but it's not really about "personal freedoms" but political party wedge issues.

And the trickling down of those issues from politicians to small establishments / the general population, too. As well as those establishments / people trying to return the favor by thinking they can trickle up.

 

[AlexanderG]

Since the mask debate is framed in terms of “personal freedoms” to expel whatever dangerous things into enclosed airspaces we want, I wondered if the question is relevant.

(for context, I’m a smoker that agrees with indoor smoking bans for the protection of others’ health)

Not unless it owns the libs? Not unless it shows other people how loyal you are to your political tribe, and reassures you of your own identity?

 

[Jose Fly]

Hmmmmm.....not a bad idea. I could go into a place that is anti-mask, light up a cigar, and when people start complaining I could be like "Oh, you don't like inhaling dangerous materials that are exhaled by others? Now you know why the rest of us want you to wear a mask!"

 

[Psalm23]

Since the mask debate is framed in terms of “personal freedoms” to expel whatever dangerous things into enclosed airspaces we want, I wondered if the question is relevant.

(for context, I’m a smoker that agrees with indoor smoking bans for the protection of others’ health)

Hello MeowMix, please rephrase the title question. I’m not sure what you are asking.

I agree with a smoking ban . I think with masks people should be free to wear them or choose not to.

 

[Meow Mix]

Hello MeowMix, please rephrase the title question. I’m not sure what you are asking.

I agree with a smoking ban . I think with masks people should be free to wear them or choose not to.

To skirt something is to avoid it: “should establishments that avoid mask bans allow smoking?”

Why can people choose not to wear a mask in public, enclosed spaces during a pandemic where many infected don’t even know they’re infected, but someone can’t light up a cigarette in the same space in the name of personal freedom?

 

[Stevicus]

Since the mask debate is framed in terms of “personal freedoms” to expel whatever dangerous things into enclosed airspaces we want, I wondered if the question is relevant.

(for context, I’m a smoker that agrees with indoor smoking bans for the protection of others’ health)

I don't know, although I found a site about adapting N95 masks for smokers.

N95 Lights: an Innovative Face Mask With a Cigarette Smoking Hole (jumpkick.net)

We all know that there is a desperate global shortage of N95 disposable face masks during the coronavirus crisis, but no one has addressed the even greater shortage of N95 face masks for cigarette smokers. That’s why our team has invented an innovative N95 mask, N95 Lights, which snugly fits all face types, has four layer protection, and has a hole around the general mouth area so that people can still smoke cigarettes while out in public without having to risk their health by taking off their mask.

Well, I suppose it's good that smokers don't have to risk their health by taking off their mask.

They're taking donations:

Stretch goals:

-$30,000: We’ll start rolling out our lineup of N95 masks with rectangular holes that you can fit your juul through!

-$40,000: We’ll design a mask with a hole big enough to fit a bong pipe through so that you can take fat rips with you friends.

 

[Psalm23]

To skirt something is to avoid it: “should establishments that avoid mask bans allow smoking?”

Why can people choose not to wear a mask in public, enclosed spaces during a pandemic where many infected don’t even know they’re infected, but someone can’t light up a cigarette in the same space in the name of personal freedom?

If you are smoking inside this exposes others to second hand smoke which is harmful. For cigarette smoke, many people, myself included , are sensitive to the smoke smell.

If you are not wearing a mask, you may or may not have COVID-19. I don’t think cloth masks are very effective. I heard N95 masks are pretty effective but may be hard to breathe in and should be properly fitted.

 

[Psalm23]

I feel it should be up to the individual about wearing masks. Some people have difficulty wearing masks due to a medical condition ( such as COPD) and should not be discriminated against. I don’t believe cloth masks are that effective if you are around someone with COVID.

 

[Vinayaka]

I feel it should be up to the individual about wearing masks. Some people have difficulty wearing masks due to a medical condition ( such as COPD) and should not be discriminated against. I don’t believe cloth masks are that effective if you are around someone with COVID.

The mask is for the other people, not for you. They're meant to protect others from your COVID. I thought everyone would have had that one figured out by now, but apparently not.

 

[Psalm23]

The mask is for the other people, not for you. They're meant to protect others from your COVID. I thought everyone would have had that one figured out by now, but apparently not.

I have heard that. I question how is it helpful to protect others if it’s not that helpful to protect oneself?

 

[Debater Slayer]

If you are not wearing a mask, you may or may not have COVID-19. I don’t think cloth masks are very effective. I heard N95 masks are pretty effective but may be hard to breathe in and should be properly fitted.

Multi-layer cloth masks are indeed effective according to the CDC. Furthermore, given that someone could have COVID-19 while being asymptomatic or thinking it is a flu or cold, it seems to me that it is reasonable to mandate masks indoors instead of risking the infection of a vulnerable person, which could hospitalize or even kill them.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

To skirt something is to avoid it: “should establishments that avoid mask bans allow smoking?”

Why can people choose not to wear a mask in public, enclosed spaces during a pandemic where many infected don’t even know they’re infected, but someone can’t light up a cigarette in the same space in the name of personal freedom?

Because one is a potential threat and the other is an actual threat.

If I go next to you I "may" have the potential to infect you with COVID. So, wearing a mask is a preventive measure just in case you're right.

Second hand smoke is an actual threat in that we know who is smoking, when, and where. We can judge the threat because we have facts to go by. We know.

I don't see them the same. I understand smoking bans or segregating smokers from non-smokers in regards to tables because the people in those establishments have clear expectations-if they smoke, they sit here if the same people don't, they sit there.

Masks bans, though, don't work the same way. You can tell unmask people to sit there for fear of getting COVID but you don't know who has it or not. So people don't know if the establishment expectations is warranted because no one can judge whether they have COVID or not.

I don't see the comparison.

 

[Vinayaka]

I have heard that. I question how is it helpful to protect others if it’s not that helpful to protect oneself?

Has to do with the concentration of particles, and how they're dispersed. It's basic science. Think of a water nozzle that sprays mist. Right as it comes out of the hose it's dense. In COVID's case it's the nose, not the hose.
To be fair, it also helps protect you, but nowhere near the degree to which it protects others.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Very thought-provoking post!

What a thinker you are!

 

[Meow Mix]

Very thought-provoking post!

What a thinker you are!

I’m not sure if this is sarcasm thick enough to spread on bread or what haha ^.^

 

[Meow Mix]

Because one is a potential threat and the other is an actual threat.

If I go next to you I "may" have the potential to infect you with COVID. So, wearing a mask is a preventive measure just in case you're right.

Second hand smoke is an actual threat in that we know who is smoking, when, and where. We can judge the threat because we have facts to go by. We know.

I don't see them the same. I understand smoking bans or segregating smokers from non-smokers in regards to tables because the people in those establishments have clear expectations-if they smoke, they sit here if the same people don't, they sit there.

Masks bans, though, don't work the same way. You can tell unmask people to sit there for fear of getting COVID but you don't know who has it or not. So people don't know if the establishment expectations is warranted because no one can judge whether they have COVID or not.

I don't see the comparison.

Not everyone that inhales smoke gets cancer, some people go their whole lives smoking.

So I’m not sure this “potential” threat rebuttal does the job completely.

I understand the point that we can tell who’s smoking but can’t tell who’s exhaling viruses, but isn’t there a reasonable gray area during a deadly pandemic?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Because one is a potential threat and the other is an actual threat.

If I go next to you I "may" have the potential to infect you with COVID. So, wearing a mask is a preventive measure just in case you're right.

Second hand smoke is an actual threat in that we know who is smoking, when, and where. We can judge the threat because we have facts to go by. We know.

I don't see them the same. I understand smoking bans or segregating smokers from non-smokers in regards to tables because the people in those establishments have clear expectations-if they smoke, they sit here if the same people don't, they sit there.

Masks bans, though, don't work the same way. You can tell unmask people to sit there for fear of getting COVID but you don't know who has it or not. So people don't know if the establishment expectations is warranted because no one can judge whether they have COVID or not.

I don't see the comparison.

So hopefully you'd agree to take COVID tests to make sure you didn't have the virus every single time you wanted to enter an indoor space without a mask.

... or you could just wear a mask instead. Which do you think is more practical and reasonable? Because not wearing a mask indoors when, as you yourself said, you don't know whether or not you're carrying the virus is like playing Russian roulette with others' safety.

If a mask mandate assumes everyone has the virus as your logic implies, then going into an enclosed space without a mask assumes you do not have the virus. Going by your own logic, I see no reason whatsoever to go with the latter assumption rather than the former, since asymptomatic transmission is a thing.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Not everyone that inhales smoke gets cancer, some people go their whole lives smoking.

So I’m not sure this “potential” threat rebuttal does the job completely.

I understand the point that we can tell who’s smoking but can’t tell who’s exhaling viruses, but isn’t there a reasonable gray area during a deadly pandemic?

I guess there's a gray area in both. We don't know who will develop cancer from second hand smoke and we don't know if we'll spread the virus if we don't wear a mask.

The difference is we know whose smoking we just don't know the effects of the second hand smoke.

The latter we don't know who has COVID so we don't know (based on lack of knowledge) who has COVID.

But I'd get better information with the person who smokes in order to assess whether to allow smoking in my establishment. I can't do that with masks and COVID. Too much guessing.

-

Going by your OP question, though, because there is more grey area with masks and COVID than there is in smoking, I'd understand why establishments warrant segregation between smokers and non-smokers. There's not enough "data" to judge whether not wearing masks Will spread COVID. So personally, without more information I have no reason to ban people without masks like I have with smoking.