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Featured Should Churches be Allowed to Legally Discriminate Against Hiring LGBTQ Persons?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Wandering Monk, Jan 10, 2021 at 10:24 AM.

  1. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I think my friend's biggest concern was in answering questions from other folks' kids. I think he didn't trust himself enough to not go nuts on the child who prefaced some question with homophobia.

    Yes, teachers often have to suck up their personal views. I had to. It's not that hard to avoid certain topics. I find the whole area tricky. Religious institutions most certainly have the right to expect certain behaviors, and have the same rights as private individuals do in terms of not letting people in the door, or expelling a disorderly drunk.

    In legalese, so much depends on the word 'reasonable'.
     
  2. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Right, but there are plenty of contexts where it might not ever come up.

    A Sunday School teacher for very young kids likely would deflect any sorts of questions about sex at all. Someone teaching a marriage preparation class (in a denomination where none of the couples in the class would be same-sex couples) likely wouldn't have to address the issue of homosexuality.

    In many churches, the music director position is considered part of the "ministry"

    ... though I don't think the normal range of "reasonable" would include kicking someone out because they're divorced, for instance.
     
  3. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    I meant no to discrimination and that they should be viewed as equal human beings. Sorry if it wasn’t clear.
     
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  4. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    If a boss kept devaluing a woman for her "lack of" intelligence to men without descriminating she may not morally stay at the job because her advancement etc is limited to her sex. Likewise with LGBTQ. Someone transgender may have similar problem. A gay person may have a time to depending on stereotypes and mannerisms.

    These are lawsuits waiting to happen. Why would anyone work in a place where they're walking on eggshells?

    (Disclaimer. Not defensive tone)
     
    #104 Unveiled Artist, Jan 11, 2021 at 9:43 AM
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021 at 10:00 AM
  5. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Indeed. These employers should treat their employees better.

    When a religious group decides to make their place of worship a workplace, they should be responsible for ensuring that it meets all normal requirements for a workplace: safe, equitable, not toxic, etc.

    Again: because people have to make rent.

    Haven't you ever worked at an unpleasant job because you had to? People in that position deserve our protection; we shouldn't be abandoning them to be mistreated.
     
  6. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Yes. I'm also in a catholic run environment where co-workers can be "openly" christian without blame. One coworker I know and thought we'd know each other better knows I'm lesbian. If she and the boss were to make comments about it would bring me down hard. I wouldn't stay if my work is compromised because of it.

    How do you put a barrier between just being uncomfortable and being devalued at your job?

    It's one thing if a boss felt uneasy talking with someone who hasn't fully transitioned. It's a whole nother thing to delegate tasks to that coworker based on it. I assume it can only go so far?

    I've heard many homeless have similar sentiments in that they have to really ignore their worth as a human being to work at X place.

    (I get what you're saying though)
     
  7. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Thank you for the clarification.
     
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  8. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    I think they should have freedom for that.

    And I think it is weird why LGBTQ people want to be part of Christians Church, when Bible is for example against homosexual sex.
     
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  9. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I did when I worked in mental health. It was were I worked, or a faith based joint. The eggshells for me their was any indications I have mental health issues (and thus being relegated to one of "those people), my lack of conservative morals, and not having religion. But that was basically it for my field in that area.
     
  10. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Religion aside... a mental health service provider stigmatizing mental health issues? That's messed up.
     
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  11. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    That whole place was messed up.
     
  12. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I can give you a case in point from personal experience. When a family member had to go into a care facility, it was a private facility and catered to the residents well, but profits were low because costs were high. It was a good thing for the residents....but when the owners decided to sell it, it was taken over by a church run organization who already ran several nursing homes. They were sanctimonious people who spouted on about what great Christians they were and how the residents in their facility were their number one priority....but the problem was, none of the management staff were Christians and the owners bottom line was apparently the priority for them. Making it a successful business with good returns for their bosses, meant cutting costs, but the residents bore the brunt of the cost cutting by way of pathetic food (which I wouldn't have fed to my dog) and low staff numbers to care for those who could not care for themselves. Anyone who rang the bell for attention had to wait till someone was available.....shame if they were lying on the floor bleeding. :rolleyes:

    If you are a church run organization and your staff are only there for the high salaries, (can't attract good staff without a sweetener) and if they have no Christian commitment to their charges, or compassion for the disabled and elderly, then can you not see the problem?

    Christians should care for other Christians and money should not be an issue. "Care" facilities should have "care" as their priority, but greed always gets in the way.

    In Australia there have been Royal Commissions into this awful industry but to date nothing much has changed.
    Bodies in beds, barely alive, make people money. :facepalm:

    I am not trying to suggest anything...I am merely giving you our perspective. We are very glad that we aren't involved in politics because it is full of greedy liars and cheats.....seeing the state of affairs in many countries divided by politics and / or religion with hatred and bloodshed as the result.....where is Jesus in any of that?

    Certain countries consider themselves to be a "Christian" nation.....but 'Christian is as Christian does'......there are no obvious "Christians" in politics anywhere.....how can there be if we are to follow the example of Jesus Christ? (Matthew 5L43-44) He was non-political and non-violent. He wanted his disciples to be "peacemakers" as opposed to being merely "peacekeepers" enforcing "peace" with weapons. No genuine Christian can be involved in bloodshed and remain in good standing with God. We let the world be ruled by the world.....and stay out of it. We like it that way....because our conscience is clear.
     
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