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Should Churches be Allowed to Legally Discriminate Against Hiring LGBTQ Persons?

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Why only churches? Why do you not mention mosques, Hindu temples?

So you mean that all religions can discriminate except for Christians?

What is the logic of that?

Please cite specific cases of discrimination against the LGBTQ community by Hindu temples.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Come to think of it, wasn't a prerequisite for employment at Ark Encounter was that one has to be a Christian?
That and more.
Such agreements are common at such fundamentalist establishments, including schools. You're basically expected to be contractually obligated to at least behave as one and fake being one.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Why would anyone who's LGBT want to work in an environmemt where they're resented and unwelcome?
Well, it has been my experience that this has, from time to time, led to unwelcoming environments to rethink. And I do speak from experience. Not everyone who appears to be bigoted actually is -- they often enough just don't know any better. And that's something that is actually quite easy to change.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I agree with exchemist. If it's a custodial or a landscaping job, there should be no discrimination. But if it's a Sunday school teacher, that's another matter. You can then list some religious qualifications on the application form, because it matters.

I have an acquaintance who was sort of in this position, although he was a volunteer. His son is gay, and as a consequence, he changed his tune about that, to being supportive, rather than hateful. In discussions with the pastor, they mutually agreed that he would no longer ever teach children or youth there, as it would compromise him, and have a lot of potential for problems. But he is still a volunteer pianist.
And this is exactly the opposite of my most recent post, above. Here we have someone, the pastor, of presumed intelligence - and some authority - making it absolutely clear that he has nothing to learn at all.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
If a Catholic priest was forced to hire a LGBTQ who said "hi there, big boy," he might be tempted off of the path he was on (choir boys), and might have a consensual relationship for a change. It might work, though I'd stay away from churches during lightning storms (those crosses are like lightning rods).

I remind everyone, that LGBTQ is against scriptures, but it is not our place to judge (only God is the judge). We have to be forgiving, mild mannered, and accepting. We have to warmly greet everyone (and really mean it). We are all God's children.
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
If you argue yes, then should liberal churches be legally allowed to discriminate by not hiring straights?

In the Prajapita Brahmakumaris discrimination against LGBTQ persons does not exist as each human being is considered to be essentially an eternal soul in a temporarily occupied body.

The focus is on uplifting the state of consciousness of the soul through meditation, virtuous conduct and proper daily routine.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Just wondering how people "work" or get "hired" to do God's work? :shrug:
God does not "hire".....he is worthy of our service freely given.

If you work for God, you are a volunteer, not an employee.

If we have positions of service to fill in our organization, they are filled by our own brotherhood who all volunteer their services. Since we have none in our spiritual family who are practicing homosexuals, we have no reason to discriminate against anyone. All are welcome in our brotherhood but immorality will not be tolerated....immorality is not gender specific.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
New Just wondering how people "work" or get "hired" to do God's work? :shrug:
God does not "hire".....he is worthy of our service freely given.
I assumed it was something like secretaries, groundskeepers, teachers, or other more general positions.
 

night912

Well-Known Member
Should churches be allowed to discriminate based on the skin color of the person they're hiring? To me the same reasoning applies to the op.
And the answer remains the same, yes.

Separation of church and state is important, and it can only be successful if it goes both ways. The government should not force a religion to not discriminate just like a religion should not force the government to discriminate.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I assumed it was something like secretaries, groundskeepers, teachers, or other more general positions.

In our organization, all these positions are filled by volunteers. No one should make a living off God......we are to serve his interests, not have him serve ours.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
And this is exactly the opposite of my most recent post, above. Here we have someone, the pastor, of presumed intelligence - and some authority - making it absolutely clear that he has nothing to learn at all.
For sure, but that is the way they are. Hard set, like concrete. Some folks will kick their own children out of the house. I've never been impressed.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I agree with exchemist. If it's a custodial or a landscaping job, there should be no discrimination. But if it's a Sunday school teacher, that's another matter. You can then list some religious qualifications on the application form, because it matters.
I'm not sure that a church should be able to discriminate for positions like that (assuming they're paid - more on that below).

If it ends up that the legitimate requirements for a position like Sunday School teacher are so stringent that no non-member is likely to apply, so be it, but simply barring non-members from the position? Why?

If someone knows the doctrine of the religion and is capable of teaching it effectively to kids, why shouldn't they get a chance at the job?

I have an acquaintance who was sort of in this position, although he was a volunteer. His son is gay, and as a consequence, he changed his tune about that, to being supportive, rather than hateful. In discussions with the pastor, they mutually agreed that he would no longer ever teach children or youth there, as it would compromise him, and have a lot of potential for problems. But he is still a volunteer pianist.
I have a few thoughts about this.

First: sounds like your friend couldn't do the full duties of the job in good conscience. There are other cases where a person can do the job - even if that job is teaching the religion to kids - even if they don't agree with every point in a church's statement of faith or follow every point in their code of conduct.

My grade 10 geography teacher was a young-Earth creationist. I'm sure there was a lot in our physical geography unit that he disagreed with personally; he still taught it effectively. I certainly wouldn't have wanted him - a good teacher - fired just because he didn't accept everything in the curriculum.

Second: I see paid positions differently from volunteer positions. With a paid position, we're talking about someone's livelihood. Messing with someone's livelihood is not a small thing, and I don't think that an employer should be free to mess with it on a whim.

A lot of employment standards laws are in place because of the significant potential for an employer to coerce their employees. That potential largely isn't there with unpaid volunteers.

Also, there's the issue of personal freedom of religion. In other cases, hopefully we can all agree that firing an employee for their religious beliefs would be an infringement of their rights; why should we give churches freedom to infringe on the rights of their employees?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Just wondering how people "work" or get "hired" to do God's work? :shrug:
God does not "hire".....he is worthy of our service freely given.

If you work for God, you are a volunteer, not an employee.
If you don't understand how or why other religions have paid employees, Google is your friend.

If you're trying to suggest that only your particular denomination's approach should be followed... well, let's just say that I'm glad your denomination doesn't involve itself in politics.
 
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