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Featured Should Churches be Allowed to Legally Discriminate Against Hiring LGBTQ Persons?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Wandering Monk, Jan 10, 2021 at 10:24 AM.

  1. Meandflower

    Meandflower Active Member

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    Good
     
  2. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Ānanda
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    Please cite specific cases of discrimination against the LGBTQ community by Hindu temples.
     
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  3. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    Come to think of it, wasn't a prerequisite for employment at Ark Encounter was that one has to be a Christian?
     
  4. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    IIRC, the statement of faith they made employees agree to went well beyond simply being Christian.
     
  5. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    That and more.
    Such agreements are common at such fundamentalist establishments, including schools. You're basically expected to be contractually obligated to at least behave as one and fake being one.
     
  6. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Well, it has been my experience that this has, from time to time, led to unwelcoming environments to rethink. And I do speak from experience. Not everyone who appears to be bigoted actually is -- they often enough just don't know any better. And that's something that is actually quite easy to change.
     
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  7. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    And this is exactly the opposite of my most recent post, above. Here we have someone, the pastor, of presumed intelligence - and some authority - making it absolutely clear that he has nothing to learn at all.
     
  8. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    If a human owns basic spiritual awareness. Then they do. Organisation is just a business in life reality.
     
  9. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    What is a LGBTQ?

    A HUMAN BEING.

    NO!
     
  10. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Active Member

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    If a Catholic priest was forced to hire a LGBTQ who said "hi there, big boy," he might be tempted off of the path he was on (choir boys), and might have a consensual relationship for a change. It might work, though I'd stay away from churches during lightning storms (those crosses are like lightning rods).

    I remind everyone, that LGBTQ is against scriptures, but it is not our place to judge (only God is the judge). We have to be forgiving, mild mannered, and accepting. We have to warmly greet everyone (and really mean it). We are all God's children.
     
  11. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    In the Prajapita Brahmakumaris discrimination against LGBTQ persons does not exist as each human being is considered to be essentially an eternal soul in a temporarily occupied body.

    The focus is on uplifting the state of consciousness of the soul through meditation, virtuous conduct and proper daily routine.
     
  12. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Just wondering how people "work" or get "hired" to do God's work? :shrug:
    God does not "hire".....he is worthy of our service freely given.

    If you work for God, you are a volunteer, not an employee.

    If we have positions of service to fill in our organization, they are filled by our own brotherhood who all volunteer their services. Since we have none in our spiritual family who are practicing homosexuals, we have no reason to discriminate against anyone. All are welcome in our brotherhood but immorality will not be tolerated....immorality is not gender specific.
     
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  13. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    The Bible doesn't really condemn the T.
    I would eagerly add it to the reasons of why Jehovah hates me if it did.
     
  14. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I assumed it was something like secretaries, groundskeepers, teachers, or other more general positions.
     
  15. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

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    And the answer remains the same, yes.

    Separation of church and state is important, and it can only be successful if it goes both ways. The government should not force a religion to not discriminate just like a religion should not force the government to discriminate.
     
  16. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    In our organization, all these positions are filled by volunteers. No one should make a living off God......we are to serve his interests, not have him serve ours.
     
  17. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    No? What, then?
     
  18. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    For sure, but that is the way they are. Hard set, like concrete. Some folks will kick their own children out of the house. I've never been impressed.
     
  19. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I'm not sure that a church should be able to discriminate for positions like that (assuming they're paid - more on that below).

    If it ends up that the legitimate requirements for a position like Sunday School teacher are so stringent that no non-member is likely to apply, so be it, but simply barring non-members from the position? Why?

    If someone knows the doctrine of the religion and is capable of teaching it effectively to kids, why shouldn't they get a chance at the job?

    I have a few thoughts about this.

    First: sounds like your friend couldn't do the full duties of the job in good conscience. There are other cases where a person can do the job - even if that job is teaching the religion to kids - even if they don't agree with every point in a church's statement of faith or follow every point in their code of conduct.

    My grade 10 geography teacher was a young-Earth creationist. I'm sure there was a lot in our physical geography unit that he disagreed with personally; he still taught it effectively. I certainly wouldn't have wanted him - a good teacher - fired just because he didn't accept everything in the curriculum.

    Second: I see paid positions differently from volunteer positions. With a paid position, we're talking about someone's livelihood. Messing with someone's livelihood is not a small thing, and I don't think that an employer should be free to mess with it on a whim.

    A lot of employment standards laws are in place because of the significant potential for an employer to coerce their employees. That potential largely isn't there with unpaid volunteers.

    Also, there's the issue of personal freedom of religion. In other cases, hopefully we can all agree that firing an employee for their religious beliefs would be an infringement of their rights; why should we give churches freedom to infringe on the rights of their employees?
     
  20. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    If you don't understand how or why other religions have paid employees, Google is your friend.

    If you're trying to suggest that only your particular denomination's approach should be followed... well, let's just say that I'm glad your denomination doesn't involve itself in politics.
     
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