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Featured Should Churches be Allowed to Legally Discriminate Against Hiring LGBTQ Persons?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Wandering Monk, Jan 10, 2021 at 10:24 AM.

  1. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    But again: you want a secular court ruling on what is and isn't proper for Christians to believe?
     
  2. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    Discrimination isn't a belief; it is an action.
     
  3. Moses_UK

    Moses_UK Member

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    Christianity is a cult and should be dealt as a cult accordingly.
     
  4. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    I would say in a strict sense a religion should not be forced to do anything against its theology in terms of pastoral or cleric duties.

    However they should not discriminate in areas not directly related with the theology like administration, upkeep of facilities etc.
     
  5. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    Remember the argument that its privately owned? Those rules don't apply.
     
  6. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    Those factors could all present legitimate conflicts of interest and all relate to chosen actions or political positions. Being homosexual is a fundamental characteristic and doesn't automatically pose a conflict of interest in working for a church. An individual homosexual might also have specific opinions or positions that makes them unsuitable for a particular job but they can't be dismissed out of hand on the basis of their sexual orientation (or presumed sexual orientation, as if sometimes the case) alone.

    Joining an organisation (essentially a club) is district from formal employment.

    No, this is about employment law. It is distinct from free association in people's private life (employees and employers).
     
  7. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Out of the ~4,800 taxpayer-funded schools in my province, about 1,500 are Catholic.

    Full-time teaching jobs are hard to get. It certainly limits a person's opportunity if a third of the teaching jobs are off-limits to them.

    And while they're waiting for that full-time spot, it's a lot easier for a young teacher to get by if they're on the supply list for both of the school boards in their area.

    ... so in this case, saying that LGBTQ people should just not work for an organization that disapproves of them effectively amounts to saying that LGBTQ people need not become teachers unless they have some other source of income to sustain them for potentially a long time.
     
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  8. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I know.

    I'm talking about what happens when we carve out special exemptions in secular law for religious groups acting on their religious beliefs: it necessarily ends up with secular courts ruling on the validity of religious beliefs.
     
  9. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I firmly and strongly believe if you serve the public, you serve the public.
    I'm also very aware of the short supply of services and employment in rural settings.
    Ideally people wouldn't have to even consider working for anyone sternly opposed to them, but that's not the world we live in.
     
  10. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Do employees of anti-LGBTQ churches have access to secrets that they want to keep from LGBTQ people?

    Not really the same thing.

    Membership and employment are different things.
    No, it isn't. Employment by an organization like a church isn't the same thing as membership in the church.
     
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  11. Meandflower

    Meandflower Active Member

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    Why only churches? Why do you not mention mosques, Hindu temples?

    So you mean that all religions can discriminate except for Christians?

    What is the logic of that?
     
  12. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Sadly, in America, it is believed the employee will serve as a representative of sorts, and employees will not engage in behaviors that would "bring shame to the company." (Taken from a couple employee handbooks I've had).
     
  13. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I think it means that, by and large, it's Christian churches that do the discriminating.
     
  14. Meandflower

    Meandflower Active Member

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    Why only churches? Why do you not mention mosques, Hindu temples?

    So you mean that all religions can discriminate except for Christians?

    What is the logic of that?
     
  15. Meandflower

    Meandflower Active Member

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    So you mean gays are not discriminated against in mosques or buddhist temples?

    do you really think so?
     
  16. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    Oversight on my part. But to be fair, it is Christian churches who are making the most noise on this topic.
     
  17. Meandflower

    Meandflower Active Member

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    How do you know that?
     
  18. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    Watching the news and talking to church folk I know.
     
  19. Meandflower

    Meandflower Active Member

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    how many mosques have employed gays?

    How many hindu temples have employed gays?
     
  20. Meandflower

    Meandflower Active Member

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    Hmm.. it is strange the news takes up that Christians discriminate against gays when in reality it happens in almost all religious circles and religious houses of worship including Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, Baha'is, Hindus
     
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