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Featured Should Churches be Allowed to Legally Discriminate Against Hiring LGBTQ Persons?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Wandering Monk, Jan 10, 2021.

  1. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    If you argue yes, then should liberal churches be legally allowed to discriminate by not hiring straights?
     
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  2. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Hiring in what capacity? I'd have thought that for roles with a religious content, including religious teaching, then yes they should be probably be allowed to discriminate, but for other jobs, e.g. administrative, maintenance etc, then no they should be subject to the general law of the land.
     
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  3. Left Coast

    Left Coast Happy New Year!
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    ***MOVED TO RELIGIOUS DEBATES***
     
  4. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Why would anyone who's LGBT want to work in an environmemt where they're resented and unwelcome?
     
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  5. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I agree with exchemist. If it's a custodial or a landscaping job, there should be no discrimination. But if it's a Sunday school teacher, that's another matter. You can then list some religious qualifications on the application form, because it matters.

    I have an acquaintance who was sort of in this position, although he was a volunteer. His son is gay, and as a consequence, he changed his tune about that, to being supportive, rather than hateful. In discussions with the pastor, they mutually agreed that he would no longer ever teach children or youth there, as it would compromise him, and have a lot of potential for problems. But he is still a volunteer pianist.
     
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  6. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Because, and I know this is a bit out there, LGBTQ people also need "jobs" and sometime, they don't have much luxury of choice in their area and/or their domain.
     
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  7. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Legally, no. In the US churches have the right to discriminate based on theological conflict. Openly gay people can't be priest regardless if they are celebrate and don't think of their oruebration 99.999% of their day.

    It's mostly theological restrictions. Ideally, churches love believers but I can't think of anything straights are not allowed to follow based on their sexual orientation. But legally, no. They can't.
     
  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I think a lot of it has to do with if one is openly gay (aka meaning tells others they are gay if the situation comes up instead of don't ask don't tell). I wouldn't be surprised if the church didn't hire a gay person (to whom appropriate) because of his enfeminate personality. That. Would be discrimination legally.
     
  9. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I favour the approach in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms:

    Equality Rights

    15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

    (2) Subsection (1) does not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration of conditions of disadvantaged individuals or groups including those that are disadvantaged because of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.



    So...

    - I don't support making any special exceptions for churches from employment equity rules.

    - I think that a church, like any employer, should be able to institute hiring practices that improve conditions for disadvantaged groups.

    If a church wants to exclude LGBTQ people from working for it, it can rely on volunteers for that work (or go without the work being done).
     
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  10. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Well, there's only one context I can think of where it would matter what one's sexuality is and that's for prostitution, so unless the church is hiring prostitutes...
     
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    In times when there is not much work some people don't have much of a choice.
     
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  12. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Even then prostitutes don't want to have sex with their clients. There is no sexual desire in prostitution. What prostitute sell is access to their body and sexuality. A completely heterosexual person can have sex with a person of the same gender in the context of prostitution. A prostitute will certainly have sex with a client he or she finds undesireable, repulsive or even threatening at some point or an other. A prostitute isn't limit isn't set by his or he desire, but by what he or she's ready to do at any given point. That's if they aren't in effect a sex slaves whose limit are set by someone else entirely. There's a reason why prostitution is such a dangerous and exploitative occupation.
     
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  13. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
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    Hey, Jesus hung out with them :D
     
  14. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that an argument in favour of any form of discrimination in any environment?
     
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  15. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Should Churches be Allowed to Legally Discriminate Against Hiring LGBTQ Persons?

    We better ask the King: He would say "is't about the content of their character"
     
  16. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    To make rent? Lots of people work jobs they hate if they don't see better options available.

    And there are many cases where an LGBTQ employee's co-workers are supportive, but head office/the diocese/the church elders/etc. are the problem.
     
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  17. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Should Churches be Allowed to Legally Discriminate Against Hiring LGBTQ Persons?

    IMO:

    Tricky question, so I just give my personal view (today). This depends on:
    1) The Job description
    2) IF Religion should follow the Law or Law should follows Religion (differs per country)

    IF Persons are required to be able to perform e.g. real-time straight-N-sex education-shows
    THEN I guess they should be allowed to not hire LGBTQ Persons

    Other than that I don't see how my sexuality, just like skin color, has anything to do with my Devotion to God

    Note: Personally I think Religion should follow Country Law. Religion is about my internal life, not about the other's internal life (N, LGBTQ etc)
    Note: I only have to transform my self. No need to change others, so no need to evangelize (tell others their sex position is wrong)
    Note: Evangelizing religions might have a problem in hiring LGBTQ Persons (but Law trumps Religion)
     
    #17 stvdv, Jan 10, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
  18. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Yup. It's also basically the "core" issue behind stores wanting to ban LGBT. In some places of the country the choices are very few and far between. In some parts of the country the market doesn't offer protections or corrections but rewards those who discriminate.
    And not everyone is able to just pack up and move.
     
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  19. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Being that churches are organizations based on ideology, they must be able to hire in accordance with their ideology.

    I would ask a different question. If you were gay, why would you want to force and organization that is against homosexuality to hire you?
     
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  20. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Out of curiosity: do you know of any church that refuses to hire straight people?
     
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