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Featured Should Christians follow the Law?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by NathanShepard8888, Dec 8, 2015.

  1. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    What Christians follow is another set of laws and semantically it is separate from the Mosaic Law.
     
  2. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    No wonder I cant understand you, ",,/Praise Him!/." This seems to be different English than I learned.
     
  3. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    It depends. An observant Jew who follows Jesus should keep the Judaic Law. A Gentile, however, is not constrained (by biblical precedent) to convert to Judaism, and thus is not obliged to keep Judaic Law. Christianity is pan-cultural and pan-religious. As long as one loves, one is following Jesus.
     
  4. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    the Law of ONE is singular.
     
  5. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    You forgot about the laws governing slavery. Do those still have validity?
     
  6. NewChapter

    NewChapter GiveMeATicketToWork

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    If no one has already pointed this out, this is Galatians 3:1-10 in the Bible:

    Galatians 3:1-10
    English Standard Version (ESV)
    (1)O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. (2)Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? (3)Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? (4)Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? (5)Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— (6)just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”? (7)Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. (8)And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” (9)So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. (10)For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”
     
  7. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    Ok, hows about you tell what this means now.
     
  8. NewChapter

    NewChapter GiveMeATicketToWork

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    Pretty self-explanatory to me.
     
  9. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    I do believe that in this debate forum actually making some comment about what you cut and paste is expected. And what's self explanatory to you could make no sense to someone else. Try adding some context and application if you would please.
     
  10. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
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    The author of Galatians here makes an argument that gentile converts do not have to keep the law, however I think he does not by his argument oppose the law for those who are required to keep it or those who choose to. He does not (in Galatians 2:14) tell Cephas to stop keeping Jewish customs or declare that Cephas is free of observing the Torah, not at all. I am under the impression that in the Bible a 'Curse' means that one's actions are noticed, particularly mistakes made. For example Deut 23:5 says "But the LORD would not listen to Balaam and turned the curse into a blessing." James 3:9 contrasts cursing against praise. The, passage to which Galations refers is one where the tribes are standing upon two different mountains calling across to each other so that they are like two witnesses. In the Law two witnesses are required to convict, and here are two witnesses providing an accusation, a curse, against anyone who breaks the law.

    That being said, the authorship of this particular letter is called into question by some scholars. Probably its best to consider the arguments made without taking them as authoritative, even if you don't allow for metaphors as much as I do.
     
  11. NewChapter

    NewChapter GiveMeATicketToWork

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    You can find the context yourself. :)
     
  12. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    This is how it's done lazy one.
     
  13. PreacherToTheChoir

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    Hi Nathan,

    The answer to your question is that the Apostles gave the laws for Christians in Acts 15. This is Acts 15:6-21:

    Acts 15:6-21
    English Standard Version (ESV)
    (6)The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. (7)And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. (8)And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, (9)and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. (10) Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? (11)But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”

    (12)And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. (13)After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. (14)Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. (15)And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,

    (16)“‘After this I will return,
    and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;
    I will rebuild its ruins,
    and I will restore it,
    (17) that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord,
    and all the Gentiles who are called by my name,
    says the Lord, who makes these things (18)known from of old.’

    (19)Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, (20)but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. (21)For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”

    In my belief, yes Christians should practice the 4 cited laws.
     
  14. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I beleive we should follow the law according to the grace that Jesus gives us to do so.
     
  15. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    i believe one is not following Jesus because one loves but one loves because one is following Jesus.
     
  16. Ron Hackel

    Ron Hackel Member

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    The Jews asked for a pagan god at Mount Sinai and God obliged them.
    DEUTERONOMY 18 : 16 "For this is what you asked of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, 'Let us not HEAR the voice of the Lord our God nor SEE this great fire anymore, or we will die."

    If you read Isaiah 6:9-10, you'll see God gave them what they desired. The passages in Isaiah 6 make no sense otherwise. Why would a loving God not want his children to understand? They would never believe in a God of love, so God gave them the god they desired as confirmed by Stephen in ACTS 7:42. They were the chosen people. Not as Satan put in their heads as being special, but chosen to do a job.

    DANIEL 9 : 24 "Seventy sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression (quit going back on the contract they had made with God) and put an end to sin"

    Their sin was:

    PSALM 78 : 32 "In spite of all this, they kept on sinning; in spite of his wonders, they did not believe."

    God took them from slavery and kept doing whatever they asked. The problem was that they'd never believe he'd do the next thing. That was their sin and mankind's sin. Most churches use the verse that sin is transgression of the law, but interpret what it means incorrectly. They infer that because we do immoral acts that God is going to punish us. They get that notion from the legalistic tyrant that came down on Mount Sinai. As Moses said in Exodus 20:20, "Don't be afraid that God was just testing them". They had asked for a pagan god and God was putting them to the test. Their answer was that they'd do anything that god asked. God gave them the god they asked for. If you do a comparison you'll see that Jesus had nothing in common with the picture of a god shown at Mount Sinai. The Mount Siani god was a legalistic tyrant with punishments of death if you disobeyed him. Now, transgression of the law (not doing the 10 commandments) is sin, but not in the way Satan has put it in our minds. God's law is perfect. It is the perfect way for us to interact to lead happy lives. If you transgress the law-do something contrary to his law, your life will result in less than a happy outcome. So, just as the Jews sin was not trusting in God, so is the meaning of this verse. Paul said in 2 CORINTHIANS:

    2 CORINTHIANS 3 : 9 "If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness."

    Satan has also distorted the meaning of righteousness.

    ROMANS 3 : 10&11 "There is no one righteous not even one; there is no one who UNDERSTANDS, no one who seeks God."

    In the verse in 2 Cor. Paul was talking about the 10 commandments. They were given by a legalistic tyrant picture of a god but the actual laws themselves were glorious. Paul is saying how much more glorious if you know that they actually reflect God's character. In a present day example the Mount Sinai god would say, "Don't drink and drive or I'll kill you. Our loving Father would say, "Don't drink and drive because you might kill yourself. So as Scripture says Jesus was the end of the law. He showed the true picture of God's character.

    HEBREWS 7 : 18&19 "The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God."

    The word "Perfect" is also interpreted as mature in other Scripture. The law never made your faith in a loving God mature because everytime you did something wrong you'd have to redo the sacrifice to think God was okay with you. Jesus showed that God always loved us.

    HEBREWS 10 : 1 "The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming-not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same endless sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect (again mature in your knowledge of a loving God) those who draw near to worship."

    Justified means set right.

    GALATIANS 2 : 16 "Know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus"

    You'll never know God's true character (mind set right) by believing in the legalistic god shown at Mount Sinai but believing in Jesus.

    COLOSSIANS 2 : 14 "having cancelled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross."

    The laws were against the Jews because it took them away from knowing God's character instead of closer.

    GALATIANS 3 : 19 "What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come."

    God had promised that a Seed would come through the woman (symbolically God's people). The Jews needed a way to think they were okay (in their minds) with God when they did something wrong or they would have abandoned him. Jesus was that seed. He crushed Satan's head by revealing the truth about God's character. The word "name" means one's character in Hebrew.

    JOHN 5 : 43 "I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me."
    JOHN 19 : 37 "In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth."
    1 JOHN 5 : 20 "We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true."

    The whole Christian world believes in the pagan god shown at Mount Sinai. And as God says about the final days.

    ISAIAH 4 : 1 "In that day seven women (symbolically all God's so-called people) will take hold of one man and say, 'We will eat our own food and provide our own clothes; only let us be called by your name. Take away our disgrace!"

    They want to provide their own food instead of the manna from heaven-the word of God. And they want their own clothes. Jesus brought the robe of righteousness. Go back and look at what Paul said the definition was. If you don't believe the interpretation, verse 4 says, "The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion."
     
  17. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
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    sandy whitelinger,
    It is vital for all Christians to understand that The Mosaic Law Covenant ended at the time of Jesus' death, Colossians 2:13,14. The Mosaic Covenant was nailed to the stake, tree. The Bible tells us that everyone under the Mosaic Covenant is under a curse, Galatians 3:10-13. Consider what is further written about those who want to be under The Mosaic Law, instead of being saved by FAITH, and not by obeying the required works of the Mosaic Law, Galatians 5:1-6.
    God had recorded that the Mosaic Law was to be in effect until the coming of The Messiah, or Christ, Galatians 3:22-25, Jeremiah 31:31-34. This New Covenant that would take the place of the Mosaic Covenant was instituted by Jesus at the Lord's Evening Meal, or Last Supper, Luke 22:14-20, 1Corinthians 11:23-26.
    At the institution of the New Covenant the Mosaic Law Covenant was superseded, by a much better Covenant, one based on the blood of Jesus, instead of goats and Bulls, as was the Mosaic Covenant, Hebrews 8:6-13, 7:18,28, 9:15-19, 10:1-4, 9-14, Acts 13:38,39.
    Consider also Romans 3:20, 4:13-15, 6:23, 14,15, 7:6. Galatians 3:1-6. By not recognizing the greatness of Jesus ransom sacrifice, and thinking that you can be justified by the Mosaic Law Covenant is showing contempt for Jesus ransom, for YOU, and is very bad in God's eyes, Galatians 2:20,21, Hebrews 10:28-31.
    The Gentiles were never under the Mosaic Law Covenant, except for a few who became Jewish proselytes, Acts 2:10, Romans 2:14. The Mosaic Law Covenant ended for all Jews 33 CE, at Jesus death, when the New Covenant took effect.
     
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  18. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    OK.
     
  19. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
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    Ron Hackel,
    You are incorrect on almost all the things you have elaborated on. The only things you are correct on are the quotings of scripture. You have made so many assertions that it is impossible to answer all of them, without writing a book on the subject.
    If you would like an understanding of something. Please mention one subject. I would love to help you!!!
    Agape!!!
     
  20. NathanShepard8888

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    What four laws?
     
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