Should Christians follow the Law?

[sandy whitelinger]

No, but we should read it in the context of its intended audience, and then apply what we glean from that context to our own context.

Gee, that's what I thought I was doing. Paul's discussion of law seems thorough.

 

[sojourner]

Gee, that's what I thought I was doing. Paul's discussion of law seems thorough.

No, I don't think you were. Here's why. The "new law" was different in scope and application from Mosaic Law. It was meant to bring deeper spiritual meaning -- not to "provide a vehicle for righteousness." Jews already had a vehicle for righteousness - -the Mosaic Law. The "new law" didn't supersede that Law -- rather, it brought a deeper dimension to that Law. It also brought a deeper spiritual dimension to Gentile Paganism, which was the vehicle of righteousness for Gentiles. It didn't supersede Paganism -- rather, it brought a deeper dimension to it. That's why I asserted that Xy is pan-cultural. Jews still make use of their particular vehicle to God, with the added dimension that love of God as well as love of neighbor are the impetuses for being righteous. It emphasized the community and hospitality aspects of the Law, rather than the more inward-focused emphasis on one's personal righteousness (among other things). To the Gentiles, it meant something completely different. But it didn't mean that Gentiles were going to have to become Jewish in order to approach God.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No, I don't think you were. Here's why. The "new law" was different in scope and application from Mosaic Law. It was meant to bring deeper spiritual meaning -- not to "provide a vehicle for righteousness." Jews already had a vehicle for righteousness - -the Mosaic Law. The "new law" didn't supersede that Law -- rather, it brought a deeper dimension to that Law. It also brought a deeper spiritual dimension to Gentile Paganism, which was the vehicle of righteousness for Gentiles. It didn't supersede Paganism -- rather, it brought a deeper dimension to it. That's why I asserted that Xy is pan-cultural. Jews still make use of their particular vehicle to God, with the added dimension that love of God as well as love of neighbor are the impetuses for being righteous. It emphasized the community and hospitality aspects of the Law, rather than the more inward-focused emphasis on one's personal righteousness (among other things). To the Gentiles, it meant something completely different. But it didn't mean that Gentiles were going to have to become Jewish in order to approach God.

So that whole convoluted husband/ wife/Law analogy Paul used to show that the flesh is crucified and freed from the Law under Christ is just ignored or marginalized?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No, I don't think you were.

Well I beg to differ because when Paul opens his treatise and says his message is the power of God unto salvation, given through the preaching of the gospel of Christ, to believers both Jew and Gentile I tend to believe it is both to Jew and Gentile. Not a lot of deep thought or tricky analysis is needed here.

 

[sojourner]

So that whole convoluted husband/ wife/Law analogy Paul used to show that the flesh is crucified and freed from the Law under Christ is just ignored or marginalized?

No, it's just Hellenized.

 

[sojourner]

Well I beg to differ because when Paul opens his treatise and says his message is the power of God unto salvation, given through the preaching of the gospel of Christ, to believers both Jew and Gentile I tend to believe it is both to Jew and Gentile. Not a lot of deep thought or tricky analysis is needed here.

It's a general opening, but the letter was written to the church at Rome.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No, it's just Hellenized.

So you agree with it's meaning?

 

[12jtartar]

Your righteousness is righteousness forever; and your law is true. Psalm 119:142

For my hope is in your rules. Psalms 119:43

So shall I keep Your law continually, forever and ever. And I will walk at liberty, for I seek your precepts. Psalms 119:44-45

Mainstream doctrine says God freed us from freedom.

The law of Yahweh is perfect, reviving the soul; Psalms 19:7

Can perfect be made more perfect? Mainstream doctrine teaches Gods law changed.

There is a reason God says I am against the Shepherds in the last days.

Thus says Yahweh "Behold, I am against the Shepherds, and will require My flock at their hand."
Ezekiel 34:10

For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to GOD, for it does not submit to God's law. Romans 8:7

And I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statues and be careful to obey my rules. Ezekiel 37:38.

Yeshua is the Word in the flesh John 1:14. The Word of God Revelation 29:13.The same forever. Revelation 19:13 The Word does not change. Isaiah 40:8That means he cannot change. Yeshua is a walking Bible.

Yeshua said, "You have a fine of setting aside the commandments of God in order to observe your own traditions. For Moses said..." Mark 7:8

Yeshua said it is wrong to nullify what Moses wrote. He taught obedience to what Moses wrote. Is what was right now wrong. Is what was wrong now right?

Yeshua said "Has not Moses given you the law. Yet not one of you keeps the law." John 7:19

Yeshua said, "The teachers of the law sit in Moses seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. Matthew 23:2

Yeshua said, "Do not think I came to abolish the law or the prophets. I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one on the least of the commandments and teaches others to do the same shall be called the least. Matthew 5:17

Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven but he who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me in that day "Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in your name cast out demons in your name and dine many wonders in your name?" And then I will declare to them, " I never knew you; depart from me you who practice lawlessness. Matthew 7:1

For if we sin willfully after we have received knowledge of the truth there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins but a certwin fearful expectation of judgment and firey indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has re ejected Moses law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Hebrew's 10:26

Thus also faith by itself if it does not have works is dead. James 2:17

For as the body without the spirit is dead so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26

NathanShehard8888,
I hope you really want to know the truth about LAW.
For the Mosaic Law, you can obey it if you want to, there is no law against it, but you must remember that you must obey it perfectly if you want to gain salvation by obeying The Mosaic Covenant, James 2:10, Romans 6:23. The problem with obeying the Law is; it is impossible to obey it perfectly, Acts 15:5-11. Because no man can obey the Mosaic Covenant perfectly, it condemns to death all under it, that is the reason that Jesus ended the Mosaic Covenant, when he instituted the New Covenant, on the night before he died, at The lords evening meal, or Last Supper, Luke 22:19,20, 1Corinthians 11:23-26, 2Corinthians 3:5-7, Galatians 3:1-14, Romans 7:6, Colossians 2:13,14. Notice verses 16,17 where Paul tells that they do not need to obey the Sabbth, which was a requirement of the Mosaic Covenant, Exodus 31:13-17. Also Paul slightly reprimands the Galatians for going back to obeying the Mosaic Covenant, Galatians 4:9-11.
Paul even told the Galatians that if they obeyed the Mosaic Law, here talking about circumcise, believing that they were required to, they had separated themselves from Christ, Galatians 5:2-4. No one will be justified by obeying the Mosaic Covenant, Romans 3:20.
The New Covenant was. Much better covenant, it was based on the bold of Jesus, God's beloved son, not on the blood of goats and Bulls, Hebrews 9:9-15. Under the New Covenant a person can be forgiven completely, for sins, that he cannot be forgiven under the Mosaic Covenant, Acts 13:38,39. Hebrews 8:6-13 explains the much better Covenant the New Covenant is, and why the Mosaic Covenant ended. Another comparison of the two Covenants is at 2Corinthians 3:7-16. Agape!!!

 

[metis]

There is nothing that says that a person is condemned if they don't get the entire Mosaiic Law correctly, which is why the Torah has steps that a Jew must go through in order to be forgiven. Different laws have different penalties, and some have no penalties mentioned, which rather clearly indicates that perfection was not expected by God.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Depends what you mean

The moral law reflects ideals based on the character of God... so Christians should learn from and follow the spirit of the law "ooooh how I love your law' From Psalm 119 is an attitude ones should have

Loving the law does not mean trusting in one's own works or righteousness
The flesh cannot keep the law perfectly and only Jesus kept the law perfectly

so basically a christian should lean on the righteousness of Christ and his work on the cross, yet
learn from aspects of the law particularly the moral law in doing right while trusting Christ not one's own righteousness

 

[metis]

Depends what you mean

The moral law reflects ideals based on the character of God... so Christians should learn from and follow the spirit of the law "ooooh how I love your law' From Psalm 119 is an attitude ones should have

Loving the law does not mean trusting in one's own works or righteousness
The flesh cannot keep the law perfectly and only Jesus kept the law perfectly

so basically a christian should lean on the righteousness of Christ and his work on the cross, yet
learn from aspects of the law particularly the moral law in doing right while trusting Christ not one's own righteousness

For a Christian, that's certainly not a bad path to follow. However, not everyone is Christian, nor is it mandatory outside of Christianity to believe one is "saved" simply by having a politically-correct belief. I'm much more concerned about what people do or don't do than what their particular beliefs may be.

 

[Palehorse]

No. Christians should follow Jesus Christ and uphold the law.

 

[metis]

No. Christians should follow Jesus Christ and uphold the law.

Which post is this in response to?

 

[Palehorse]

Which post is this in response to?

The original post. I usually quote when replying specifically to someone within their thread.

 

[Neo Deist]

Should Christians follow the Law?

Yes, otherwise you get to wear matching metal bracelets and spend some time being someone's "best friend" in the prison shower.

 

[CG Didymus]

There is nothing that says that a person is condemned if they don't get the entire Mosaiic Law correctly, which is why the Torah has steps that a Jew must go through in order to be forgiven. Different laws have different penalties, and some have no penalties mentioned, which rather clearly indicates that perfection was not expected by God.

Does it say anywhere in the Jewish Scriptures that the Law must be followed perfectly to be saved? Is the Christian concept of "being saved" in the Jewish Scriptures? But, a good Christian does follow the laws of the land pretty much. Unless they don't like particular laws like gay rights and abortion. So the only laws they don't follow are the ones given in the Jewish Bible by the God they say they believe is Holy and perfect. Weird?

 

[metis]

Does it say anywhere in the Jewish Scriptures that the Law must be followed perfectly to be saved? Is the Christian concept of "being saved" in the Jewish Scriptures? But, a good Christian does follow the laws of the land pretty much. Unless they don't like particular laws like gay rights and abortion. So the only laws they don't follow are the ones given in the Jewish Bible by the God they say they believe is Holy and perfect. Weird?

To your first two questions the answer is no. Many of the Laws have penalities attached to them, plus there's statements as to how one may achieve forgiveness. BTW, if you have a concordance, look up "forgive" and its variations and you'll see how this can happen, and also please note that most of the time is is not referring to the Temple sacrifices.

As far as the listing of the Laws that Jews are obligated to try and follow, click on this link, which also includes where in scripture they're found: http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

And where did you get this from: "So the only laws they don't follow are the ones given in the Jewish Bible by the God they say they believe is Holy and perfect."? What are you trying to say here as there seems to be some misunderstanding?

 

[CG Didymus]

To your first two questions the answer is no. Many of the Laws have penalities attached to them, plus there's statements as to how one may achieve forgiveness. BTW, if you have a concordance, look up "forgive" and its variations and you'll see how this can happen, and also please note that most of the time is is not referring to the Temple sacrifices.

As far as the listing of the Laws that Jews are obligated to try and follow, click on this link, which also includes where in scripture they're found: http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

And where did you get this from: "So the only laws they don't follow are the ones given in the Jewish Bible by the God they say they believe is Holy and perfect."? What are you trying to say here as there seems to be some misunderstanding?

What I was trying to say was that all Christians do follow laws, the laws of the land in which they live. Ironically, the Laws given in the Jewish Bible, the Bible Christians believe came from God, Christians don't follow. They don't want anything to do with them... No matter how many verses say how good the Law is and for how long the Jews should keep it.
The way many Christians talk, it seems like they believe that Jews expected to get to get "saved", by obeying the Law... as if somewhere in their writings it says something about that if they keep the Law, perfectly, they will get to heaven. But, I've never heard a Jew say anything remotely like that. All this "heaven" stuff and getting "saved" stuff I've only heard from Christians. However, since the Christian isn't "saved" by keeping the Law, it becomes unimportant. And with Paul's writings, he sees to it that it becomes unimportant. And I can see that, he doesn't want new coverts to Christianity to have to follow Jewish Laws. But what bothers me is when Paul quotes the Jewish Scripture to "prove" how bad and useless the Law is, it seems to me that he takes them horribly out of context.

 

[Muffled]

Matthew 19.17 "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

I believe that was not a general answer but one in answer to a question. In other words the answer is specific to the question.

 

[Muffled]

1 John 2.3-7 "He that Saith I know him and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not found in him."

I believe that is exactly how it works. We know Him so the commandments are kept.