Should Christians Be Keeping the Sabbath?

[Desert Snake]

I find this to be questionable.

If you want to believe Josephus, he writes that Jesus had Jewish and non-Jewish followers. What that 'means', however, I haven't looked into.

 

[james2ko]

Jesus said he "came only for the Jews", although it appears that near the end of his life he opened the door for the "God-Fearers" (gentiles who worshiped "the God of Abraham").

I have to agree with JS, if you can believe that . I believe those God fearers were and still are dispersed Israelites (mostly descendants of Ephraim--the 10 tribes), who should be keeping the Sabbath along with their brothers from Judah. Topic for another thread.

 

[JM2C]

A reminder that the Sabbath is a day of the week that runs from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.

BTW, gentiles are not under any obligation to follow Jewish Law, but they can obviously do so if they wish.

IOW, if you are not a Jew then you are Gentile. God gave Moses the 10C in Exodus 20 for the Israelites.

 

[metis]

I have to agree with JS, if you can believe that . I believe those God fearers were and still are dispersed Israelites (mostly descendants of Ephraim--the 10 tribes), who should be keeping the Sabbath along with their brothers from Judah. Topic for another thread.

But the God-Fearers were not obligated to keep Shabbat, but probably most of them chose to do as such.

 

[metis]

IOW, if you are not a Jew then you are Gentile. God gave Moses the 10C in Exodus 20 for the Israelites.

But they were not considered binding, although there are some exceptions, especially the Laws that some may refer to as "civil law", and the same is true today in Israel. The Decalogue are only the first 10 of the 613 Laws that Torah states were all from God.

 

[james2ko]

But the God-Fearers were not obligated to keep Shabbat, but probably most of them chose to do as such.

If the God fearers were actually dispersed Israelites from Ephraim--10 tribes, then they were obligated to keep Shabbat, right?

 

[JM2C]

As such? Shabbat is named as the day of rest, to be taken after 6 days of work. It wasn't conceptually a day of the week.
Also, shabbat was originally for Israelites, not just Jews, but was available to all. Isaiah 56 makes clear that the Sabbath is for all. It was Maimonides, that sick dishonest liar, who introduced the idea that shabbat is only for Jews.

Isaiah 56 says “foreigner” as in Gentile proselytes to Judaism like the one in Acts 8:27.

Ex 12:48 “An alien living among you who wants to celebrate the LORD'S Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat of it.
Ex 12:49 The same law applies to the native-born and to the alien living among you.”

For a Gentile to adapt the 10C s/he needs to convert to Judaism, you know like Sammy Davis converted to Judaism in 1954 –wiki, but Christianity is a religion by itself and not in any way should be a part of Judaism and should NOT keep any part of the Law of Moses. Read Acts 15, the Jerusalem Council.

 

[metis]

If the God fearers were actually dispersed Israelites from Ephraim--10 tribes, then they were obligated to keep Shabbat, right?

Yes and no. Certain Laws must be kept because of the need for civil order, but the Laws that we might classify as "religious ritual" really only are mandated for us Jews. It has never been a Jewish position that gentiles must adhere to all of the 613 Laws, which would logically have to include the Decalogue.

Anyhow, I'm outta here, so you folks have chased me out of the country! [I'm going on a mini-vacation in Canada for the rest of today and tomorrow].

 

[JM2C]

Isn't it arguable that Christians should be keeping Shabbat since they claim to follow the ten commandments? Certainly Jesus and the disciples kept it, seeing as they were Jews. What argument can really be brought forward that Christians shouldn't be keeping it, and do the gospels anywhere explicitly suggest Jesus wouldn't want his followers to?

Read Acts 15 for better understanding.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

[I'm going on a mini-vacation in Canada for the rest of today and tomorrow].

Have a great time.

 

[metis]

Have a great time.

Thanks, and you have a great finish to the weekend and a Happy New Year (secular of course ).

Take care.

 

[james2ko]

Yes and no. Certain Laws must be kept because of the need for civil order, but the Laws that we might classify as "religious ritual" really only are mandated for us Jews. It has never been a Jewish position that gentiles must adhere to all of the 613 Laws, which would logically have to include the Decalogue.

Anyhow, I'm outta here, so you folks have chased me out of the country! [I'm going on a mini-vacation in Canada for the rest of today and tomorrow].

That did not answer my question ... Anyway.. Enjoy your vacation..

 

[Desert Snake]

Jesus demonstrated how picking grains on the Shabbat was ok.
As it stands right now, personally, I interpret the Shabbat my own way, as I'm not under any Rabbinical authority. So, things some Jews might consider 'work', I don't. Some things some Jews might consider not work, I consider work, so forth. Technically, I don't have to observe the Shabbat at all, because Yeshua God already fulfilled the law.

 

[JM2C]

Jesus demonstrated how picking grains on the Shabbat was ok.
As it stands right now, personally, I interpret the Shabbat my own way, as I'm not under any Rabbinical authority. So, things some Jews might consider 'work', I don't. Some things some Jews might consider not work, I consider work, so forth. Technically, I don't have to observe the Shabbat at all, because Yeshua God already fulfilled the law.

Ro 14:5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

 

[OneThatGotAway]

In regards to the seventh-day Sabbath, I did a search in the Holy Scriptures and notice the following:

"In the beginning God gave the seventh-day Sabbath day rest to all the sons of Adam. "And on the seventh day AELHYM ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made." (Genesis 2:2) I am sure Adam, Noach, Abraham and many generations in between rested on the sabbath day and kept it holy because they walked in Yahweh's footsteps. This occurred before there ever was a Jew on earth; this was for all mankind.

"And he [Yahushwo] said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:" (Mark 2:27). Notice Yahushwo (Jesus) said that the Sabbath was made the Sons of Adam (i.e. mankind) and not just for Jews only.

"But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of YAHWEH your AELHYM: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:" (Exodus 20:10). Notice that YAHWEH said that the seventh-day sabbath is HIS Sabbath and neither the Jew's sabbath nor any other nation's sabbath. Also, notice that the animals participated in the sabbath day regardless of the ethnicity or religion

"Also the sons of the [foreigner], that join themselves to YAHWEH, to serve him, and to love the name of YAHWEH, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;" (Isaiah 56:6). Lastly, I noticed that the sabbath is for foreigners (aka non-Jews).

Therefore, when it comes to deciding whether any Christian, Muslim, or any son of Adam should follow the seventh-day Sabbath, they should not follow the Jewish sabbath but rather observe the weekly seventh-day Sabbath of YAHWEH, The Lord of the Sabbath.

 

[AllanV]

While fasting it was noticed that there was a weekly cycle of energy. Whether this is imagination or not and I am sure it isn't, the sabbath cycle is written into creation from the beginning.

 

[AllanV]

Moses lead the 12 tribes of Israel into the desert and God gave them food to eat. Mana came from heaven and was gathered daily. The day before the Sabbath there was twice the amount and it was all gathered because there was none on the sabbath.

In the new testament there was talk of the hidden Mana. It seems there is now a power or energy the lifts the believers and there is a double dose before the sabbath. This truly works when dedicating some time to fasting and transformation with mind renewal.

 

[james2ko]

The context of my replies reflects my belief the New Covenant was given exclusively to Jacob's descendants--Israelites (Jer 31:31-33; Heb 8:8-10), Israel was a divided kingdom. The house of Judah consisted of Benjamin and Judah. The house of Israel (aka Ephraim) made up the remaining ten. The ten were taken into captivity and dispersed throughout the nations [goyim, ethnos] to lose their identity as God's people and be known as 'gentiles'. The remaining two tribes were also taken captive and at different times dispersed, but maintained their identity as God's people.

The captivity and exile period for both houses occurred in waves at different times between 840 to 586 BC. By the 1st century, the only 'Israel' most identify with are the Jews from the two houses of Judah. Thus most believe the Jews are the twelve tribes when in fact they are not. Jews are descendants of Judah and Benjamin (and some will include Levi). Ephraim's tribes are Israelites--not Jews. But equal recipients of Gods promises and covenants (Rom 9:4). Prior to giving the proclamation of the New Covenant, God inspired Jeremiah to reveal the Israelites from both houses and their animals were to intermingle with the seed of man and their animals (Jer 31:27). This explains the existence of Black, Chinese, Spanish Israelites (like myself).

Therefore all true NT Christians in spite of their current race or color are of Israelite ancestry (race and ancestry are not the same to God. He is impartial to ethnicity and color, but He is partial to ancestry), whether they realize or not , subject to the OT laws as prescribed by the NT. Some are still in tact (even if in principle). Others like the sacrifices and many civil statutes are temporarily suspended--to be reinstated when Christ returns. The 10 commandments are as binding to Jacob's descendants--NT Christians--today as they were to our ancestors.

Isaiah 56 says “foreigner” as in Gentile proselytes to Judaism

1. As many of Isaiah's prophecies this one has a dual fulfillment. As Luke 19:46 makes plain, in Jesus' time , it is [present tense] a house of prayer but based on the New Covenant promise, it is only for all Israelites--both Jew and gentiles [ethnos]. The second fulfillment is when the millennial temple is built and it shall be called [future tense-Mat 21:13, Mar 11:17] a house of prayer for all Israelite and non-Israelite gentiles [nations]. Do a word study on the term 'gentiles' .

ike the one in Acts 8:27.

2. Ones Ethiopian countenance has no bearing on their ancestry. These African men did not simply convert to Judaism. They are physical descendants of Aaron!

NOVA Online | Lost Tribes of Israel | The Lemba

Ex 12:48 “An alien living among you who wants to celebrate the LORD'S Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat of it.Ex 12:49 The same law applies to the native-born and to the alien living among you.”

3. Gentiles and strangers are two different Greek and Hebrew words. There are several Hebrew words translated 'stranger'. Scripture indicates there are Israelite strangers and non-Israelite strangers.. Ex 12:45 says no stranger [toshab] shall eat the Passover, circumcised or not. Yet we find Israelites like Elijah and David identified as toshab (1 Ki 17:1; Ps 39:12). According to your reckoning, Ex 12:45 would prohibit circumcised Israelites like David and Elijah from eating the Passover.

In other words, there are some "strangers" who are not allowed entry into the congregation of Israel--the church--under any circumstances, at least not in this age, and there are other 'strangers' who are. The ones allowed are Israelite strangers. The ones who are not allowed to eat the join the church and eat the Passover are non-Israelite strangers. Gentiles in the Old [goy-im-H1471] and New Testament [ethnos-G1484] can also refer to Israelites (Gen 25:23; Joh 18:35) and non-Israelites (Psa 18:49; Mk 11:17) , depending on the context.

Therefore, we must be careful in drawing analogies from the Old Covenant and force fitting them into the New which states only Israelite gentiles will be allowed to partake of the Passover.

For a Gentile to adapt the 10C s/he needs to convert to Judaism, you know like Sammy Davis converted to Judaism in 1954 –wiki, but Christianity is a religion by itself and not in any way should be a part of Judaism and should NOT keep any part of the Law of Moses. Read Acts 15, the Jerusalem Council.

4. Gentiles is a collective noun. There is no such thing as an individual 'gentile'. Even so, this would mean according to the common definition of 'gentiles', a Christian has to convert to Judaism before they can stop stealing, killing, coveting, etc.

Ro 14:5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

5. The context indicates the subject in question surrounded the matter of abstinence of food on particular days (Rom 14:1-4). I do not see any indication of Paul doing away with the 4th commandment. If he did, the Jews in the Roman congregation would have stoned him.

Read Acts 15 for better understanding.

6. But we must read it in context. When the Apostles specified the four prohibitions (vs 29), were the Gentiles freed to sin in other ways? Were they freed to transgress the commandments that say "you shall not kill?" or "you shall not have other gods before the true God"? Of course not! The Apostles in no way abrogated the moral law of God.

To understand the Jerusalem conference, we need to read these verses in context. What were the Apostles deciding at the conference? Scripture explains: "And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, 'Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved'" (Acts 15:1). The issue was circumcision. The conference determined that Gentiles need not be circumcised to be saved.

Later the Apostle Paul wrote to the Gentiles in Corinth: "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters" (1 Corinthians 7:19). I do not see any abolishment of the fourth commandment here either.

 

[Yes]

Moses lead the 12 tribes of Israel into the desert and God gave them food to eat. Mana came from heaven and was gathered daily. The day before the Sabbath there was twice the amount and it was all gathered because there was none on the sabbath.

In the new testament there was talk of the hidden Mana. It seems there is now a power or energy the lifts the believers and there is a double dose before the sabbath. This truly works when dedicating some time to fasting and transformation with mind renewal.

Jesus' WORDS are the hidden manna

If you obey what Jesus says, then you have eaten the from the hidden manna.

 

[Yes]

The context of my replies reflects my belief the New Covenant was given exclusively to Jacob's descendants--Israelites (Jer 31:31-33; Heb 8:8-10), Israel was a divided kingdom. The house of Judah consisted of Benjamin and Judah. The house of Israel (aka Ephraim) made up the remaining ten. The ten were taken into captivity and dispersed throughout the nations [goyim, ethnos] to lose their identity as God's people and be known as 'gentiles'. The remaining two tribes were also taken captive and at different times dispersed, but maintained their identity as God's people.

The captivity and exile period for both houses occurred in waves at different times between 840 to 586 BC. By the 1st century, the only 'Israel' most identify with are the Jews from the two houses of Judah. Thus most believe the Jews are the twelve tribes when in fact they are not. Jews are descendants of Judah and Benjamin (and some will include Levi). Ephraim's tribes are Israelites--not Jews. But equal recipients of Gods promises and covenants (Rom 9:4). Prior to giving the proclamation of the New Covenant, God inspired Jeremiah to reveal the Israelites from both houses and their animals were to intermingle with the seed of man and their animals (Jer 31:27). This explains the existence of Black, Chinese, Spanish Israelites (like myself).

Therefore all true NT Christians in spite of their current race or color are of Israelite ancestry (race and ancestry are not the same to God. He is impartial to ethnicity and color, but He is partial to ancestry), whether they realize or not , subject to the OT laws as prescribed by the NT. Some are still in tact (even if in principle). Others like the sacrifices and many civil statutes are temporarily suspended--to be reinstated when Christ returns. The 10 commandments are as binding to Jacob's descendants--NT Christians--today as they were to our ancestors.



1. As many of Isaiah's prophecies this one has a dual fulfillment. As Luke 19:46 makes plain, in Jesus' time , it is [present tense] a house of prayer but based on the New Covenant promise, it is only for all Israelites--both Jew and gentiles [ethnos]. The second fulfillment is when the millennial temple is built and it shall be called [future tense-Mat 21:13, Mar 11:17] a house of prayer for all Israelite and non-Israelite gentiles [nations]. Do a word study on the term 'gentiles' .



2. Ones Ethiopian countenance has no bearing on their ancestry. These African men did not simply convert to Judaism. They are physical descendants of Aaron!

NOVA Online | Lost Tribes of Israel | The Lemba



3. Gentiles and strangers are two different Greek and Hebrew words. There are several Hebrew words translated 'stranger'. Scripture indicates there are Israelite strangers and non-Israelite strangers.. Ex 12:45 says no stranger [toshab] shall eat the Passover, circumcised or not. Yet we find Israelites like Elijah and David identified as toshab (1 Ki 17:1; Ps 39:12). According to your reckoning, Ex 12:45 would prohibit circumcised Israelites like David and Elijah from eating the Passover.

In other words, there are some "strangers" who are not allowed entry into the congregation of Israel--the church--under any circumstances, at least not in this age, and there are other 'strangers' who are. The ones allowed are Israelite strangers. The ones who are not allowed to eat the join the church and eat the Passover are non-Israelite strangers. Gentiles in the Old [goy-im-H1471] and New Testament [ethnos-G1484] can also refer to Israelites (Gen 25:23; Joh 18:35) and non-Israelites (Psa 18:49; Mk 11:17) , depending on the context.

Therefore, we must be careful in drawing analogies from the Old Covenant and force fitting them into the New which states only Israelite gentiles will be allowed to partake of the Passover.



4. Gentiles is a collective noun. There is no such thing as an individual 'gentile'. Even so, this would mean according to the common definition of 'gentiles', a Christian has to convert to Judaism before they can stop stealing, killing, coveting, etc.


5. The context indicates the subject in question surrounded the matter of abstinence of food on particular days (Rom 14:1-4). I do not see any indication of Paul doing away with the 4th commandment. If he did, the Jews in the Roman congregation would have stoned him.



6. But we must read it in context. When the Apostles specified the four prohibitions (vs 29), were the Gentiles freed to sin in other ways? Were they freed to transgress the commandments that say "you shall not kill?" or "you shall not have other gods before the true God"? Of course not! The Apostles in no way abrogated the moral law of God.

To understand the Jerusalem conference, we need to read these verses in context. What were the Apostles deciding at the conference? Scripture explains: "And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, 'Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved'" (Acts 15:1). The issue was circumcision. The conference determined that Gentiles need not be circumcised to be saved.

Later the Apostle Paul wrote to the Gentiles in Corinth: "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters" (1 Corinthians 7:19). I do not see any abolishment of the fourth commandment here either.

Jesus' words are to everyone.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."