Should Christians Be Keeping the Sabbath?

[Yes]

Study harder? 2-4 hrs a day is not hard enough.. You have yet to address any of the passages I posted confirming my interpretation. How can you expect me to just accept your incontextual interpretation of one passage as truth?

All of God's written Word is true.
God's Word is powerful and true. You cannot dismiss even one scripture.

Why won't you believe God's Word? It is not about human decent. It is not about human decent. It is not about human decent.

Believe what the scriptures say.

 

[james2ko]

Those who have faith and obedience to Christ ARE Israel. It does not matter about blood. It only matters about Jesus' blood.

The first book in the Bible tells us who and what Israel is. See Genesis 32:28.

Genesis 32:28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.”

Did you see that? The one who struggles with God and with men and overcomes…
And Jesus in the last book of the Bible confirms this message. See these scriptures in Revelation. Read what Jesus says about overcoming.

Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.

Revelation 2:17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.

Revelation 2:26 To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations–

Revelation 3:5 He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

Revelation 3:12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.

Revelation 3:21 To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Revelation 21:7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

And there is only one way a person can overcome this world, and that is through Jesus Christ our Savior.

1 John 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Therefore, who and what is Israel---Israel is people who overcome by faith in Jesus Christ.

Yes I agree. But the scriptures reveal they are also physical descendants of Jacob.

Rev 21:12-14 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. 14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Out of millions perhaps billions of the supposed 'gentiles' (non-Israelites) whom are suppose to be saved, not one gets his name anywhere on the New Jerusalem's gates or its foundations??? This is only reserved for Israelites. Why? Because only Jacob's descendants are going to be allowed in!



​

 

[james2ko]

All of God's written Word is true.God's Word is powerful and true. You cannot dismiss even one scripture.

Why won't you believe God's Word? It is not about human decent. It is not about human decent. It is not about human decent. Believe what the scriptures say.

That is precisely what you are doing as you haven't addressed any of the passages supporting my interpretation. Ignoring them and asking me to believe the scriptures without providing a contextual interpretation is not going to convince anyone.

 

[Yes]

Yes I agree. But the scriptures reveal they are also physical descendants of Jacob.

Rev 21:12-14 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. 14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Out of millions perhaps billions of the supposed 'gentiles' (non-Israelites) whom are suppose to be saved, not one gets his name anywhere on the New Jerusalem's gates or its foundations??? This is only reserved for Israelites. Why? Because only Jacob's descendants are going to be allowed in!

​

How do you ever get that Gentiles are not in the New Jerusalem from heaven?

Revelation 5:…8When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. 10"You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

Unbelieving Jews were CUT OFF. They must be grafted back in by faith in Jesus. Just like everyone else.

Before Jesus started his earthly ministry, God cut off and hardened the Jews who did not have faith in Him. Only the Jews who already belonged to Him by faith could come to Jesus to be saved. They were God's people, but now they had to go through Jesus.

God cut off the Jews who did not have faith in HIM before Jesus. God bound ALL to disobedience, so that He could have mercy on ALL.

We are all the same . There have been Gentiles, and JEWS dying year after year for centuries, who have not turned to Jesus in faith.


John 12:40
"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."

Romans 11:8 as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day."

Romans 11:7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, This scripture SAYS they were broken off; broken off is cut off.

Romans 11:20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble.

God bound all to disobedience (except those who already belonged to Him by faith before Jesus came to earth). See Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

 

[Yes]

That is precisely what you are doing as you haven't addressed any of the passages supporting my interpretation. Ignoring them and asking me to believe the scriptures without providing a contextual interpretation is not going to convince anyone.

You surely are badly mistaken. You are the one who has not addressed anything that I said. You merely repeat the same thing. I have been explaining the truth and giving scripture to everything that I say.

 

[james2ko]

How do you ever get that Gentiles are not in the New Jerusalem from heaven? Revelation 5:…8When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. 10"You have made them to be a kingdom and prieststo our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

1. Notice the identity of these priests of God:

Exo 19:6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel."​

1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;​

I’ve already demonstrated how Peter’s letter was addressed to Jews and Israelites-descendants of Jacob-- from the 10 tribes, who were identified by Paul as ‘gentiles’. Just like me and those Priests from the African Lemba tribe, Jacob's descendants consist of men from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation!

Unbelieving Jews were CUT OFF. They must be grafted back in by faith in Jesus. Just like everyone else.

Jer 11:16-17 The LORD called your name, Green Olive Tree, Lovely and of Good Fruit. With the noise of a great tumult He has kindled fire on it, And its branches are broken. 17 "For the LORD of hosts, who planted you, has pronounced doom against you for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke Me to anger in offering incense to Baal."​

2 Jeremiah prophesies branches of God’s Olive tree representing both houses would be broken. This came to pass when God divorced the house of Israel (Jer 3:8). It also occurred to part of the house of Judah in Paul’s time. Notice the testimony of Paul as he alludes to Jeremiah:

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches [from the House of Judah] were broken off, and you
[gentiles-dispersed tribes], being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them [Jews-House of
Judah], and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,

Rom 11:24 For if you [gentiles-dispersed tribes] were “cut” out of the olive tree (Jer 11:16) which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature [phusis] into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these [Jews], who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?​

This illustration provides a visual representation of Paul’s analogy:



Paul describes how some branches of the house of Judah and all the branches of the house of Israel were, at different times, cut out or broken off God’s Olive Tree. In doing so, he clues us in on the physical ancestral origin of his gentile audience —the ten tribes— who were “all” cut out of “the” olive tree its branches re-planted and naturally [phusis G5449] grew into wild olive trees.

According to Strong’s and Thayer’s, “phusis” can be defined as lineal descent or physical origin. This supports Paul’s analogy as it is a known fact that wild olive trees can be physical descendants of cultivated ones:

“ Many olive trees that seem to grow wild on the hillsides of countries bordering the Mediterraneanare, in fact, descendants of cultivated trees returned to the wild.” source​

The context is certainly fitting of this definition in that according to Jer 11:16, the ancestors of Paul’s gentile audience [house of Israel] were once cut out [broken] off God’s green, cultivated olive tree (12 tribes) and replanted throughout the nations [gentiles]!

The verb “cut” [ekkopto-G1581] is in the aorist tense indicative mood. According to respected Greek Scholar and Grammarian, William Mounce, this combination connotes a past event from the author’s point of view.

Also worth noting is the presence of the Greek definite article “the” (vs 24), implying the Roman gentile congregants being cut out of a particular olive tree in the past . Which Olive Tree could this be?

Jer 2:21 But I was the One who planted you, choosing a vine of the purest stock—the very best. How did you grow into this corrupt wild vine (NLT)​

The wild olive tree which grew from the cut branches of God’s Olive Tree of which their ancestors were once a part of!

The house of Israel (wild olive tree) would be grafted back inamong some of theirphysical brothers from the house ofJudah(cultivated olive tree) who were themselves cut out, in part, during Paul’s time (Rom 11:24-25), so both houses would once again become God’s “one” GreenOlive Tree!

Verses 18-23 is a warning to the house of Israel not to become proud and complacent of their status. God can easily cut them out and graft back in the natural branches—members from the house of Judah. A key point of the analogy is grafting in can only take place between trees that are both of a common origin, such as Israel and Judah were.

Grafting in a “foreign” tree branch such as a maple tree into an olive tree stalk will not work. Similarly,
grafting in someone of different ancestral (not national, racial, or ethnic) lineage into God’s Olive Tree
(Israel) is not in God’s plan for this age.

God bound all to disobedience (except those who already belonged to Him by faith before Jesus came to earth). See Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you [gentiles-house of Israel] were Once disobedient to God, yet Have now obtained mercy through their [part of the house of Judah’s] disobedience, even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you [gentiles-house of Israel] they [house of Judah] also may obtain mercy.32 For God has committed them all [both houses] to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all [twelve tribes].​

3. The 10 tribes (house of Israel) were once disobedient which is why they became gentiles. God blinded part of the house of Judah (Jews) so the house of Israel (gentiles) can be grafted into the church! In Paul’s longest epistle, he quotes from the Old Testament around 60 times, even though the epistle had been specifically addressed to “gentiles”. The chapter concludes:

Rom 11:33-36 Oh, how great are God's riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand His decisions and His ways! 34 For who can know the LORD's thoughts? Who knows enough to give Him advice? 35 And who has given Him so much that He needs to pay it back? 36 For everything comes from Him and exists by His power and is intended for His glory. All glory to Him forever! Amen. (NLT)​

Paul glorifies God’s infinite understanding, suggesting God’s plan for physical Israel is beyond the understanding of the “average” Christian. Non-Israelites will be given their chance for salvation in the next age.

 

[james2ko]

You surely are badly mistaken. You are the one who has not addressed anything that I said. You merely repeat the same thing. I have been explaining the truth and giving scripture to everything that I say.

Yeah. Ok.

 

[Yes]

1. Notice the identity of these priests of God:

Exo 19:6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel."​

1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;​

I’ve already demonstrated how Peter’s letter was addressed to Jews and Israelites-descendants of Jacob-- from the 10 tribes, who were identified by Paul as ‘gentiles’. Just like me and those Priests from the African Lemba tribe, Jacob's descendants consist of men from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation!

Jer 11:16-17 The LORD called your name, Green Olive Tree, Lovely and of Good Fruit. With the noise of a great tumult He has kindled fire on it, And its branches are broken. 17 "For the LORD of hosts, who planted you, has pronounced doom against you for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke Me to anger in offering incense to Baal."​

2 Jeremiah prophesies branches of God’s Olive tree representing both houses would be broken. This came to pass when God divorced the house of Israel (Jer 3:8). It also occurred to part of the house of Judah in Paul’s time. Notice the testimony of Paul as he alludes to Jeremiah:

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches [from the House of Judah] were broken off, and you
[gentiles-dispersed tribes], being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them [Jews-House of
Judah], and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,

Rom 11:24 For if you [gentiles-dispersed tribes] were “cut” out of the olive tree (Jer 11:16) which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature [phusis] into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these [Jews], who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?​

This illustration provides a visual representation of Paul’s analogy:



Paul describes how some branches of the house of Judah and all the branches of the house of Israel were, at different times, cut out or broken off God’s Olive Tree. In doing so, he clues us in on the physical ancestral origin of his gentile audience —the ten tribes— who were “all” cut out of “the” olive tree its branches re-planted and naturally [phusis G5449] grew into wild olive trees.

According to Strong’s and Thayer’s, “phusis” can be defined as lineal descent or physical origin. This supports Paul’s analogy as it is a known fact that wild olive trees can be physical descendants of cultivated ones:

“ Many olive trees that seem to grow wild on the hillsides of countries bordering the Mediterraneanare, in fact, descendants of cultivated trees returned to the wild.” source​

The context is certainly fitting of this definition in that according to Jer 11:16, the ancestors of Paul’s gentile audience [house of Israel] were once cut out [broken] off God’s green, cultivated olive tree (12 tribes) and replanted throughout the nations [gentiles]!

The verb “cut” [ekkopto-G1581] is in the aorist tense indicative mood. According to respected Greek Scholar and Grammarian, William Mounce, this combination connotes a past event from the author’s point of view.

Also worth noting is the presence of the Greek definite article “the” (vs 24), implying the Roman gentile congregants being cut out of a particular olive tree in the past . Which Olive Tree could this be?

Jer 2:21 But I was the One who planted you, choosing a vine of the purest stock—the very best. How did you grow into this corrupt wild vine (NLT)​

The wild olive tree which grew from the cut branches of God’s Olive Tree of which their ancestors were once a part of!

The house of Israel (wild olive tree) would be grafted back inamong some of theirphysical brothers from the house ofJudah(cultivated olive tree) who were themselves cut out, in part, during Paul’s time (Rom 11:24-25), so both houses would once again become God’s “one” GreenOlive Tree!

Verses 18-23 is a warning to the house of Israel not to become proud and complacent of their status. God can easily cut them out and graft back in the natural branches—members from the house of Judah. A key point of the analogy is grafting in can only take place between trees that are both of a common origin, such as Israel and Judah were.

Grafting in a “foreign” tree branch such as a maple tree into an olive tree stalk will not work. Similarly,
grafting in someone of different ancestral (not national, racial, or ethnic) lineage into God’s Olive Tree
(Israel) is not in God’s plan for this age.

29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you [gentiles-house of Israel] were Once disobedient to God, yet Have now obtained mercy through their [part of the house of Judah’s] disobedience, even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you [gentiles-house of Israel] they [house of Judah] also may obtain mercy.32 For God has committed them all [both houses] to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all [twelve tribes].​

3. The 10 tribes (house of Israel) were once disobedient which is why they became gentiles. God blinded part of the house of Judah (Jews) so the house of Israel (gentiles) can be grafted into the church! In Paul’s longest epistle, he quotes from the Old Testament around 60 times, even though the epistle had been specifically addressed to “gentiles”. The chapter concludes:

Rom 11:33-36 Oh, how great are God's riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand His decisions and His ways! 34 For who can know the LORD's thoughts? Who knows enough to give Him advice? 35 And who has given Him so much that He needs to pay it back? 36 For everything comes from Him and exists by His power and is intended for His glory. All glory to Him forever! Amen. (NLT)​

Paul glorifies God’s infinite understanding, suggesting God’s plan for physical Israel is beyond the understanding of the “average” Christian. Non-Israelites will be given their chance for salvation in the next age.

The children of Israel are all who have faith and overcome.

God says human descent does not matter anymore.

Who was Jacob’s father? Who was Esau’s father?

I do not go by Strong. He is not in the Bible.

There were Israelites who were broken off. They may have became like Gentiles, but they were BLOOD RELATED TO ABRAHAM.

The Bible tells us that salvation is for everyone, Jew, Gentile, Greek.

The Gentiles were not part of salvation. The Greeks did not have part in salvation. They were those who were far off. They were EXCLUDED, and without God in the world.

Now, through the blood of Christ---ALL have a chance to be saved.

If you need scripture references to anything I say just ask

 

[Simplelogic]

Isn't it arguable that Christians should be keeping Shabbat since they claim to follow the ten commandments? Certainly Jesus and the disciples kept it, seeing as they were Jews. What argument can really be brought forward that Christians shouldn't be keeping it, and do the gospels anywhere explicitly suggest Jesus wouldn't want his followers to?

Paul abolished Sabbath for Christians. Jesus and the twelve still kept it.

Paul Abolished Sabbath

 

[james2ko]

The children of Israel are all who have faith and overcome.

The children of Israel are all who have faith and overcome.

God says human descent does not matter anymore.

Who was Jacob’s father? Who was Esau’s father?

I do not go by Strong. He is not in the Bible.

There were Israelites who were broken off. They may have became like Gentiles, but they were BLOOD RELATED TO ABRAHAM.

The Bible tells us that salvation is for everyone, Jew, Gentile, Greek.

The Gentiles were not part of salvation. The Greeks did not have part in salvation. They were those who were far off. They were EXCLUDED, and without God in the world.

Now, through the blood of Christ---ALL have a chance to be saved.

If you need scripture references to anything I say just ask

God says human descent does not matter anymore.

Who was Jacob’s father? Who was Esau’s father?

I do not go by Strong. He is not in the Bible.

There were Israelites who were broken off. They may have became like Gentiles, but they were BLOOD RELATED TO ABRAHAM.

The Bible tells us that salvation is for everyone, Jew, Gentile, Greek.

The Gentiles were not part of salvation. The Greeks did not have part in salvation. They were those who were far off. They were EXCLUDED, and without God in the world.

Now, through the blood of Christ---ALL have a chance to be saved.

If you need scripture references to anything I say just ask

It is a big topic and one that has been ingrained in Christian thought for almost 2,000 yrs. If you really want to grasp the topic, understanding the true, original meaning of the term gentiles would aid tremendously. Since I've already done the research, I'll share some of it with you or anyone who cares to know the truth about the term. Gentiles was a Latin-- not a Greek-- term.

It was originally used as an adjective, yet today every bible dictionary has it listed as a noun. Dont take my word for it, see for yourself:

Definition of gentilis (adjective, LEM, gentīlis) - Numen - The Latin Lexicon - An Online Latin Dictionary

If you are familiar with English grammar, the difference between a noun and adjective is huge. Instead of gentiles being a group, it is supposed to be describing someone that comes from a particular group. As you know, the nation of Israel was split into two kingdoms. Which is how we find them in the NT. In the NT, gentiles can describe a Jew that comes from the two tribes of the house of Judah (Joh 18:35) , an Israelite coming from the 10 tribes--house of Israel (Rom 11:25), or someone of non-Israelite status (1 Pet 2:12).

Notice the shocking revelation in Merriam-Webster’s New Book of Word Histories entry for “gentiles”:

“In the earliest Roman times, the gens (plural gentes) was a clan; the word is from the Indo-European root gen-‘beget’ and is cognate with our word kin. The plural gentes was also used to designate the peoples of the world, particularly the non-Romans. The people that could be designated by gens thus ran a curious range, from those closest to home to those decidedly foreign.” The derived adjective gentilis was used with both these implications…​

In other words, it is a term that is not suppose to have a racial connotation. It was never meant to distinguish a Jew from a non-Jew. But notice how and why the English translators decided to give it a racial tone:

“In the later Latin of the Christian Church, gentilis and gentes were used respectively to translate Greek “ethnikos “and ta ethne which meant “pagan(s)”—ta ethne [ethnos], was in turn a rendering of Hebrew goyim “non-Jews”. It was by this route the English borrowed its word gentile.”source
​

Do you realize what this means? The very first English translation (John Wycliffe’s), including the ones we read today, inserted the English word “gentiles” for “ethnos”(ethne-plural) under a false premise the Hebrew term “goy-im” always meant a “non-Jew”! Gen 25:23, 35:11, Deu 32:28; Jos 3:17; Jos 4:1; Jos 10:13; 2Sa 7:23; Isa 1:4; Zep 2:9 definitively prove that is certainly not the case!

Scriptures clearly reveal “goy” or its plural "goyim" can apply to both a non-Jew as well as a Jew or Israelite in both testaments. This false assumption has led to a massive misunderstanding of the term and a misidentification of Jacob’s descendants from the past and present! Once we understand the term, we can correctly determine which 'gentiles' are supposed to keep the Sabbath.

 

[JM2C]

JM2C said:↑

Ro 14:5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

*******

5. The context indicates the subject in question surrounded the matter of abstinence of food on particular days (Rom 14:1-4). I do not see any indication of Paul doing away with the 4th commandment. If he did, the Jews in the Roman congregation would have stoned him.

Please read the preceding post

 

[JM2C]

JM2C said:↑

Read Acts 15 for better understanding.

6. But we must read it in context. When the Apostles specified the four prohibitions (vs 29), were the Gentiles freed to sin in other ways?

No, but read Romans 2:14

Ro 2:14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law,

 

[JM2C]

Were they freed to transgress the commandments that say "you shall not kill?" or "you shall not have other gods before the true God"? Of course not! The Apostles in no way abrogated the moral law of God.

God gave the Ten Commandments to Moses for the Israelites or the people in Exodus 20.
IOW, God did not give the Ten Commandments to the Gentiles before, during, and after the Lord Jesus Christ ministry here on earth.

The Book of the Covenant [from Gen.20:22 to 23:33] is the exposition of the Ten Commandments.

Ex 24:8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people/Israelites, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you/Israel [and not with the Gentiles] concerning all these words.

IOW again, one cannot separate one from the other because one cannot work without the other or they are one piece of Law of God. They, the Ten Commandments and The Book of the Covenant, are one piece of Law of God designed only for the Israelites during that time.

They are not for the Gentiles during Moses’ and the Prophets’ time, except for the Gentile proselytes, and before and after the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ or of today. IOW, the Law of Moses is not for Gentiles to follow.

For example: In the book of Joshua, everytime the Israelites conquer a city in Canaan they don’t do nothing but kill all the people in that city and take their properties.

Jos 8:22 Then the Israelites who were inside the city came out and started killing the enemy from the rear. So the men of Ai were caught in a trap, and all of them died. Not a single person survived or escaped.
Jos 8:27 Only the cattle and the treasures of the city were not destroyed, for the Israelites kept these for themselves, as the LORD had commanded Joshua.

Now, the question is, were they violating two of God’s commandments in the Ten Commandments?

Ex 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Ex 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

NO! Because these two commandments are applicable only within the community of God and that is, the Israelites ONLY. Outside from this community, as long as God is commanding them, they can do anything to anyone without violating the Ten Commandments and The Book of the Covenant.

We could never understand these two commandments of God, if we base it on Joshua 8:22-27, and if we don’t read The Book of the Covenant where it says,

Ex 21:12 “Anyone who hits a person hard enough to cause death must be put to death.
Ex 21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

Can we apply these rules to a non-Israelite then and to Christians now? NO!

Christians cannot pick and choose which of the Law of Moses to follow because the whole Law of Moses is one piece of Law of God that one cannot separate for his or her own purposes.

Another example is, tithing. Many Christian churches use this part of the Law of Moses to collect money from the congregation. They use Malachi 3:8-10 for tithing, but if you read this book, God was talking to the priests and the Israelites and not to Gentiles or Christians of today.

IOW, Christians cannot just pick this particular Law of Moses and ignore the rest.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

No explanation needed on this verse. One cannot pick and choose which of the Law of Moses to follow otherwise, one is under the curse of God, or “fallen from grace“.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

You wouldn’t know what to do if you apply the whole Law of Moses to your daily living today. You will be doing nothing but reading and applying the Law of Moses all day everyday 24x7.

 

[metis]

... apply the whole Law of Moses to your daily living today. You will be doing nothing but reading and applying the Law of Moses all day everyday 24x7.

Yep, that's what we Jews are expected to do, which is why it's a pretty dominating lifestyle.

 

[Desert Snake]

^ Good point. This is another reason, when people try to use the argument of Jesus merely being a 'good Rabbi', well.. without authority to change the Laws, Jesus through His teachings would have been quite the bad Rabbi. Ultimately, this is the sad and incorrect, even ridiculous message, that some who have lost their faith in Xianity as a religion, yet still parrot the writings, or 'analyse' the scripture, without the theology, offer. It's like going to a synagogue and pulling out a ham sandwich, doesn't work.

 

[james2ko]

JM2C said:↑

Read Acts 15 for better understanding.

No, but read Romans 2:14

Ro 2:14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law,

The conference was primarily about the requirement of circumcision for salvation (Act 15:1). It was not about dissolving any of the 10 commandments. James would be contradicting himself for it was he who said you break one of the ten you break them all (Jas 2:10-11). Nowhere in Act 15 or anywhere else in scripture does it state the fourth commandment is no longer a requirement.

I have closely looked at every single passage in scripture concerning the Sabbath, and as you can see by my last several posts, my study of a topic is extensive. I have yet to find any scripture that dissolves the fourth commandment or reassigns the day.

 

[JM2C]

To understand the Jerusalem conference, we need to read these verses in context. What were the Apostles deciding at the conference? Scripture explains: "And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, 'Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved'" (Acts 15:1). The issue was circumcision. The conference determined that Gentiles need not be circumcised to be saved.

Later the Apostle Paul wrote to the Gentiles in Corinth: "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters" (1 Corinthians 7:19). I do not see any abolishment of the fourth commandment here either.

Is circumcision part of the Law of Moses? Let’s not argue and find out from Paul.

Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that, if ye receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 Yea, I testify again to every man that receiveth circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

To choose circumcision is to choose legalism, which in turn involves taking on the burden of the entire Law of Moses. What is penalty for not “observing” the whole Law of Moses?

Gal 3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

I believe James said the same thing

Jas 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

 

[JM2C]

The conference was primarily about the requirement of circumcision for salvation (Act 15:1). It was not about dissolving any of the 10 commandments. James would be contradicting himself for it was he who said you break one of the ten you break them all (Jas 2:10-11). Nowhere in Act 15 or anywhere else in scripture does it state the fourth commandment is no longer a requirement.

Nowhere in Acts 15 did it say that Gentiles should follow any part of the Law of Moses either.

Let me ask you, do you think you could follow the whole Law of Moses without “stumbling at just one point”? That’s what I think..

Jas 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

Gal 3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

 

[JM2C]

I have closely looked at every single passage in scripture concerning the Sabbath, and as you can see by my last several posts, my study of a topic is extensive. I have yet to find any scripture that dissolves the fourth commandment or reassigns the day.

How many gospel do you see here?

Gal 2:7 They saw that God had given me the responsibility of preaching the Good News to the Gentiles, just as he had given Peter the responsibility of preaching to the Jews.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Is circumcision part of the Law of Moses? Let’s not argue and find out from Paul.

Why should Paul be considered authoritative?