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Should Bahaism be allowed to be practiced in Iran.

firedragon

Veteran Member
One can sanction Israel for its majoritarian territory grabbing and still rightfully call Hamas a terrorist organization.

Please tell me in your quest, how is that relevant to the Bahai issue in Iran in the 19th century?

Also, please tell me if you think that the Hamas is a Muslim entity? How about the Christians who were fundamental in the creation of Hamas? Do you have any clue?
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
It is nearly impossible to have a discussion with you Firedragon. Maybe that avatar says it all?

Ad hominem.

So after saying there is not historical sources that were available, you agree now that there are historical sources?

Please do a so called "historical research" and show me where I said there is no historical sources as a general statement unless that was made about a specific point?

Tony. You are a good guy. Why do you resort to this type of cheap tricks?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Please do a so called "historical research" and show me where I said there is no historical sources as a general statement unless that was made about a specific point?

Well it was a response to this, in bold.

You offered "And during the time of the Babi movement, it was known only in Iran. No one records it. It was a small movement that was crushed immediately."

So I showed that was not a correct statement to show it was recorded and published outside Iran.

Now as far as being Squashed, there was a time when it was thought that may be so, but look at the world today. Did they succeed in squashing the Babi movement? The Bab started the movement to usher in the Message of Baha’u’llah, as such, I see far from being Squashed, the Bab was successful in the aim of His Message.

Regards Tony
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
You offered "And during the time of the Babi movement, it was known only in Iran. No one records it. It was a small movement that was crushed immediately."

So could you please quote some historical records that are recorded outside of Iran during the Babi movement?

Thanks in advance.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So could you please quote some historical records that are recorded outside of Iran during the Babi movement?

Thanks in advance.

Anon (1853) New Sect in Persia [Liverpool Mercury, May 31, 1853]. The Latter-Day
Saints Millennial Star, 15 (26), 415.

Austin H Wright (1853) Letter from Dr. Wright, November 20, 1852. The Missionary
Herald containing the Proceedings of the American Board of Commissioners
for Foreign Mission, 49 (3), 76-77.

Revue des Deux Mondes & François Buloz (1853) Annuaire des Deux Mondes:
Histoire Générale des Divers États 1852-1853. Burea de la Revue des
Deux Mondes: Paris. 868-869.

Anon (1852) In Persia [Attempt on the life of the Shah]. Harpers New Monthly
Magazine, 6 (31), 124.

Anon (1852) How They Punish Treason in Persia [An account of the executions of
two Babis, Haji Sulayman Khan Tabrizi and Qurratu'l-Ayn, folowing the attempt on the life of Nasir-al-Din Shah in 1852]. The Times (London), (13 October 1852).

Austin H.Wright (1851) Bab und seine secte in Persien. Zeitschrift fur Deutschen
Morgänlandischen Gesellschaft, 5, 384-385 .

A Fouquier (1849) Chapitre V Perse. In: Annuaire Historique Universel ou Histoire
Politique pour 1849, (ed. A Fouquier) , 573-576. T Hoisnier Desplaces: Paris.

Anon (1846) Mahometan Schism. Reprint of an article from the Literary Gazette.
Eclectic Magazine of Foreign Literature, Science and Art, (Jan), 142.

Anon (1845) Mahometan Schism. The Times (London), (Nov 1 1845).

Anon (1845) Reprint of an article from The Times. Literary Gazette (London), 1504,
(15 Nov).

Regards Tony
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Anon (1853) New Sect in Persia [Liverpool Mercury, May 31, 1853]. The Latter-Day
Saints Millennial Star, 15 (26), 415.

Austin H Wright (1853) Letter from Dr. Wright, November 20, 1852. The Missionary
Herald containing the Proceedings of the American Board of Commissioners
for Foreign Mission, 49 (3), 76-77.

Revue des Deux Mondes & François Buloz (1853) Annuaire des Deux Mondes:
Histoire Générale des Divers États 1852-1853. Burea de la Revue des
Deux Mondes: Paris. 868-869.

Anon (1852) In Persia [Attempt on the life of the Shah]. Harpers New Monthly
Magazine, 6 (31), 124.

Anon (1852) How They Punish Treason in Persia [An account of the executions of
two Babis, Haji Sulayman Khan Tabrizi and Qurratu'l-Ayn, folowing the attempt on the life of Nasir-al-Din Shah in 1852]. The Times (London), (13 October 1852).

Austin H.Wright (1851) Bab und seine secte in Persien. Zeitschrift fur Deutschen
Morgänlandischen Gesellschaft, 5, 384-385 .

A Fouquier (1849) Chapitre V Perse. In: Annuaire Historique Universel ou Histoire
Politique pour 1849, (ed. A Fouquier) , 573-576. T Hoisnier Desplaces: Paris.

Anon (1846) Mahometan Schism. Reprint of an article from the Literary Gazette.
Eclectic Magazine of Foreign Literature, Science and Art, (Jan), 142.

Anon (1845) Mahometan Schism. The Times (London), (Nov 1 1845).

Anon (1845) Reprint of an article from The Times. Literary Gazette (London), 1504,
(15 Nov).

Regards Tony

the problem with such quick googling is Tony, sometimes you fall into traps that you didnt; set for yourself.

Read each of these cut and pastes, read them fully, and go on to claim that some of them are just bogus anti Bahai polemics. Please go ahead.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
1. Their religion is political enemy with Muslims and Shiites.
2. Interpret Quran to support enemies against Shiites and Muslims.
3. Their interpretations are cultish like in hate towards Shiites and Muslims and justify oppression they face as God's punishment
4. Support Israel #1 enemy of Iran.

After hearing @InvestigateTruth teach me this about his religion/cult, I don't believe Iran should allow them to propagate freely.

This would be like if US allows KKK as a religion to propagate or Hitler Nazism under a guise of a religion.

Thanks for letting me know Khomeini (q) and Khamanei (ha) were right about this. I thought it was just propaganda all this time against you guys.

If you believe the government gets to determine what constitutes acceptable religious beliefs, then follow your government.

If you believe people who view the world differently to you should be demonised and considered an enemy, then create a thread that promotes enmity and hatred.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
the problem with such quick googling is Tony, sometimes you fall into traps that you didnt; set for yourself.

Read each of these cut and pastes, read them fully, and go on to claim that some of them are just bogus anti Bahai polemics. Please go ahead.
You are never satisfied of anything people give you. But of course you have all the answers to the truth your self......or
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Err. I suggested Link to study the Bahai theology from primary sources. That's because he knows arabic. It's pathetic mate for you to make this kind of polemics. Please don't pretend you have studied your theology. You have not.

The truth is that the more I learn the more I realise how little I really know about anything especially Baha’i theology.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
the problem with such quick googling is Tony, sometimes you fall into traps that you didnt; set for yourself.

Read each of these cut and pastes, read them fully, and go on to claim that some of them are just bogus anti Bahai polemics. Please go ahead.

I have no issue with the history Firedragon, I do not need to show roses if there was thorns. There is always people that will not do as they are asked, that made mistakes. The three that tried to take the Shah 's life, after the Bab was martyred, did so against better advice and acted on their own. The subsequent trial Baha'u'llah faced, though he had naught to do with this cleared the Babi and found they had acted on their own. They were angry the Bab had been unjustly slain.

That violent history was instigated by the divines of Persia, who were threatened by the Bab's Message from Allah. They saw and witnessed the influence of such a change as 10's of thousands embraced the new cause and saw that it threatened their temporal hold over the minds of men and did all in their power to incite the hate of the multitudes.

I will finish there Firedragon. Regards Tony
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
You can do what you want. But Bahaism interpretation of Quran justifies human suffering and oppression and see Muslims suffering as God's punishment and also have a messed interpretation that supports Zionism. They shouldn't be accepted as a real religion, they are hateful and with the oppressors.

Why should they be accepted when their religion is mixed with an interpretation that makes them work against the Muslims, Shiites, and Iran?

Same way you wouldn't accept KKK in your country, Bahaism should be rejected.
The KKK, which was started by the Democrats, IS allowed to assemble in America and speak their minds. They can all fit in a couple of station wagons!
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
My experience is people who speak of love and kindness too much, always stand with oppressors against oppressed, and usually never the other way. But what do I know.

Perhaps hate and retribution and belief in hell suppose to have a place to make us fear God and side with oppressed. But what do I know.
Its Persia, Iran is a temporary name.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Please tell me in your quest, how is that relevant to the Bahai issue in Iran in the 19th century?

Also, please tell me if you think that the Hamas is a Muslim entity? How about the Christians who were fundamental in the creation of Hamas? Do you have any clue?
I am confused. Was I replying to you in the original statement? It was a reply to something said by another poster was it not? I found the original statement made by the original poster very frivolous and wrote an equally frivolous counter in an ironical fashion. Not everything has to be about ignorance of Islam, Israel Palestine issue or any some such thing ok?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Please tell me in your quest, how is that relevant to the Bahai issue in Iran in the 19th century?

Also, please tell me if you think that the Hamas is a Muslim entity? How about the Christians who were fundamental in the creation of Hamas? Do you have any clue?
Yes, why would anyone ever consider the Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah - the Islamic Resistance Movement - Muslim?

o_O
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
It allows religions in general. Why not Bahaism, I never understood, but understand now. Their interpretation of Quran and their religion is done in political opposition to Shiite Muslims and they work against the Shiite Muslims as did they did during Shah time, and they continue now. This is not imagined, see what @InvestigateTruth says about verses and Shiite Muslims being punished by God.

Same way KKK should not be allowed to be spread in US.
Wow! This thread reeks of special pleading. All the time you carrry on about how according to Quran verses disbelievers are to recieve eternal punishment from God, and yet the shoe goes on the other foot and its like - Ban them!

ROFL.

Since @firedragon is calling on people to address the foolish arguments of the OP when it is a call to ban an entire group for the arguments of one or two Baha'i anyway, which is itself illogical I'm tagging him in this post too.

In my opinion.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Oh I have, I know the details. It's cowards only and hypocrites with no backbone or oppressors or racists, that side with Zionism only.
Such a snap judgement is a very strong indicator of how much attention you want to have, and from whom.

I will strive to act accordingly. And to adjust my perceptions and expectations accordingly, as well.

Fortunately, I have had years of early warning, so it is no big deal at this point.
 
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