Should atheism have the same rights as religion?

[LuisDantas]

what incentive, other than the law, does an Atheist have to be moral, let alone to teach it?

Since you see fit to ask the question, I feel certain that you would be surprised to learn the answer.

If anything, disbelief in a God (particularly one of the Abrahamic mold) is a bonus for understanding and practicing morality.

Our incentive is actually the very same that one would expect, and that most if not all Christians and Muslims have as well: it is simply a good idea to be moral. It makes life easier and more joyful.

To advise people on it? Besides, I've yet to meet a group of Atheists who agree on any given set of morals, since most think morality isn't any sort of an absolute. For them, it's up for discussion and "reform".

Do you think that theists are any different in this regard?

 

[BilliardsBall]

There have been a few "is atheism a religion?" threads recently. They've had a few people insisting that yes, atheism is a religion.

This raises a question that I've asked a few times without response:

Religions, religious ministers, religious adherents, etc., often have special rights, privileges, and benefits. If atheism is a religion, shouldn't atheist groups get the same special treatment that churches receive? Shouldn't individual atheists get the same treatment that religious individuals receive?

Do you agree that atheism should be protected by religious freedom laws?

If you think that churches should be tax-free without having to file financial statements, do you agree that atheist organizations should also have this privilege?

Should donations to atheist organizations get the same tax credits as donations to a church?

Should "atheist ministers" be entitled to the parsonage allowance that religious ministers receive?

Sure, I just need all atheists to agree it's a religion before you all get special privileges. Go for it!

 

[Shad]

There have been a few "is atheism a religion?" threads recently. They've had a few people insisting that yes, atheism is a religion.

This raises a question that I've asked a few times without response:

Religions, religious ministers, religious adherents, etc., often have special rights, privileges, and benefits. If atheism is a religion, shouldn't atheist groups get the same special treatment that churches receive? Shouldn't individual atheists get the same treatment that religious individuals receive?

Do you agree that atheism should be protected by religious freedom laws?

If you think that churches should be tax-free without having to file financial statements, do you agree that atheist organizations should also have this privilege?

Should donations to atheist organizations get the same tax credits as donations to a church?

Should "atheist ministers" be entitled to the parsonage allowance that religious ministers receive?

No as atheism isn't a religion.

 

[LuisDantas]

What do you mean by optimism in my post #101 above, @Sky Rivers ?

 

[Sky Rivers]

What do you mean by optimism in my post #101 above, @Sky Rivers ?

I found your post to be optimistic.

 

[InChrist]

Ok

But the vast majority of people claiming whatever faith they claim are of that faith. Their personality may make them a good or not so good in their faith, they are still of that faith and it is no ones prerogative to claim they are not of that faith.

I am not sure about other faiths, but the biblical scriptures, while stating that God alone judges the heart, also says followers of Jesus are to display good fruit in their lives, walk in His light, love one another, keep His commandments, etc. So I think when someone claiming to be a Christian lies, abuses, hates, and lives in hypocrisy there is reason to question and if fact the scriptures demand such testing and discernment.

 

[InChrist]

If your religion's teachings are so unclear that its own adherents can't all figure out what its supposed founder wanted them to do, this really isn't non-adherents' problem to solve.

That is your opinion that the teachings are unclear. I think the teachings in the biblical scriptures are very clear. The issue is that people fall short in their understanding, along with the reality that each individual is at a different place in their spiritual growth. It might seem chaotic from your view or the human perspective, but I don't think it is from God's view. He allows and can handle immense variety and levels of understanding of multitudes of unique individuals and still accomplish His purposes among those who love Him, without conforming everyone into outward cookie-cutter clones. What a huge, powerful, awesome God!

 

[metis]

I am not sure about other faiths, but the biblical scriptures, while stating that God alone judges the heart, also says followers of Jesus are to display good fruit in their lives, walk in His light, love one another, keep His commandments, etc. So I think when someone claiming to be a Christian lies, abuses, hates, and lives in hypocrisy there is reason to question and if fact the scriptures demand such testing and discernment.

Exactly, and the Christian scriptures very much states as such when Jesus said that one can only come into the "kingdom" through the "narrow gate", and in the Parable of the Sheep & Goats, the latter are not allowed into heaven even though they believe some things about what Jesus taught but they did not live immersed in what Jesus taught about coming to the aid of others in need.

I think Jesus would probably make a good Buddhist, doncha think? Are you familiar with the Catholic monk Thomas Merton, by chance?

 

[InChrist]

Exactly, and the Christian scriptures very much states as such when Jesus said that one can only come into the "kingdom" through the "narrow gate", and in the Parable of the Sheep & Goats, the latter are not allowed into heaven even though they believe some things about what Jesus taught but they did not live immersed in what Jesus taught about coming to the aid of others in need.

I think Jesus would probably make a good Buddhist, doncha think? Are you familiar with the Catholic monk Thomas Merton, by chance?

Yes, I am familiar with Thomas Merton. While I can appreciate some of his thoughts, I am afraid his writing are too mystical and include too much interspirituality, assimilating eastern philosophy into the Christian faith, from my perspective. Years ago, people used to point to Shirley MacLaine as the greatest influence in the new age movement, but it was more likely Thomas Merton who influenced new age thinking more than anyone when he took it out of its monastic setting and making it available to and popular with the masses.

I think saying Jesus would make a good Buddhist is a contradiction and really if you look at the tenets of Buddhism and Christianity it doesn't make sense to think so. Have you read:

 

[ChristineM]

I am not sure about other faiths, but the biblical scriptures, while stating that God alone judges the heart, also says followers of Jesus are to display good fruit in their lives, walk in His light, love one another, keep His commandments, etc. So I think when someone claiming to be a Christian lies, abuses, hates, and lives in hypocrisy there is reason to question and if fact the scriptures demand such testing and discernment.

So just about every christian is not a christian?

I know of no christian who has not abused, shown hatred, been hypocrical, lied, sworn and many more acts that some would call unchristian.

 

[1213]

No, atheists believe in that, too.

But it is not from atheism, which is why atheism itself is not useful. If atheist has good idea, it is nice, but not something from atheism.

 

[1213]

As an atheist i can assure you that an atheist is far more capable of love for fellow human beings than any religious person. ...

Then, why be against Christianity, when its greatest commandment is to love neighbor and even enemies?

 

[Windwalker]

I don’t think so, because atheism is not useful, it has no teaching, it only fights against Christianity and tries to stop people to believe in “love your neighbor as yourself”. By the actions of atheists, it seems to be very evil ideology. Why else it would try to lead people away from loving their neighbor and even enemies?

Have you ever actually met a real atheist? I can't think of a single one who is opposed to "love your neighbor as yourself". Neither more nor less than any self-identified Christian is by their own words and actions.

 

[ChristineM]

Then, why be against Christianity, when its greatest commandment is to love neighbor and even enemies?

Unfortunately christians dont follow the path of christianity

 

[metis]

Yes, I am familiar with Thomas Merton. While I can appreciate some of his thoughts, I am afraid his writing are too mystical and include too much interspirituality, assimilating eastern philosophy into the Christian faith, from my perspective. Years ago, people used to point to Shirley MacLaine as the greatest influence in the new age movement, but it was more likelyThomas Merton who influenced new age thinking more than anyone when he took it out of its monastic setting and mading it available to and popular with the masses.

I think saying Jesus would make a good Buddhist is a contradiction and really if you look at the tenets of Buddhism and Christianity it doesn't make sense to think so. Have you read:

Merton said that it was his study of Buddhism and the use of medication that allowed the gospel to really jump out at him in a way that made his Christian faith even more meaningful. I went through a similar effect with my studies on Gandhi, who embraced Jesus basically about as much as he did Hinduism.

 

[InChrist]

So just about every christian is not a christian?

I know of no christian who has not abused, shown hatred, been hypocrical, lied, sworn and many more acts that some would call unchristian.

That is very sad, but there have been Christians for 2000 years and are Christians around the world. How many have you known or do you personally know? I believe there are still Christians spread out all over the world who do love Christ and desire to live for Him and demonstrate His love to others. I will say, though, that as a Christian myself it does seem that even in my lifetime I have seen "Christians" become more worldly, hateful, liars, abusers, etc. and as you said displaying behaviors that are very unchristian. I have come to the conclusion that this is an indication of the nearness of Jesus' return, since He did pose the question about whether He would even find genuine faith on the earth at that time.

 

[InChrist]

Merton said that it was his study of Buddhism and the use of medication that allowed the gospel to really jump out at him in a way that made his Christian faith even more meaningful. I went through a similar effect with my studies on Gandhi, who embraced Jesus basically about as much as he did Hinduism.

Well, I certainly cannot doubt that God uses many different avenues to reach someone's heart and reveal deeper insights about Himself and/or the gospel message. I am just of the perspective that it is important to test all spiritual revelations/teachings by the scriptures, which I consider the as words of God.

 

[ChristineM]

That is very sad, but there have been Christians for 2000 years and are Christians around the world. How many have you known or do you personally know? I believe there are still Christians spread out all over the world who do love Christ and desire to live for Him and demonstrate His love to others. I will say, though, that as a Christian myself it does seem that even in my lifetime I have seen "Christians" become more worldly, hateful, liars, abusers, etc. and as you said displaying behaviors that are very unchristian. I have come to the conclusion that this is an indication of the nearness of Jesus' return, since He did pose the question about whether He would even find genuine faith on the earth at that time.

I have known or know maybe 1500 christians. I count 1 as good friend, another 10 as friends. The rest i can do without.

Also i can pretty much guarantee that even you have at sometime broken the christian ideal.

As for return, dont worry, i wont beholding my breath waiting for a guy who may of may not have lived. Even if he did hes been dead over 2000 years and its doubtful he lived as described in the bible.

 

[SomeRandom]

That's probably a very good question for one of the many "is atheism a religion?" threads.

Just so I'm clear: the intent of this thread isn't to rehash whether atheism is a religion; it's to ask the people who say "yes, atheism is a religion" about the implications of their position.

That’s fair. Personally I think charities should be tax exempt but not religions specifically. Render unto Ceaser and all that.

 

[LuisDantas]

I found your post to be optimistic.

It really isn't. Honest, yes, but not optimistic.