Shock news, politicians cheat.

[ChristineM]

We are only stuck with it as long as we keep allowing it to happen. I am confident that humans are capable of developing a social system that would eliminate this endless litany of the abuse of power. Unfortunately, I am not so confident that we are capable of seeing past our own selfish needs and desires far enough to find the collective will to do so.

I live in france, the lowest level of government is the commune. It seems to work when everyone socialises with the councilors and mayor. If they are found cheating they have to face their friends and neighbours in their local bakers, food store or market and its the end of their social scene. Not to say it doesn't happen but the opportunity to get away with it is limited.

I cant see that happening on the national scale where opportunity is greater and social ties are not an issue.

 

[Revoltingest]

Except that it is not true that no one would do any better job as leader than anyone else.

Well, it is a work of darkly sardonic dystopian fiction.
I just thought you might enjoy it.

 

[PureX]

Well, it is a work of darkly sardonic dystopian fiction.
I just thought you might enjoy it.

I actually liked the author's comments in interviews more than I liked his books. Though it has been a long time sing I've read any of them.

 

[PureX]

I live in france, the lowest level of government is the commune. It seems to work when everyone socialises with the councilors and mayor. If they are found cheating they have to face their friends and neighbours in their local bakers, food store or market and its the end of their social scene. Not to say it doesn't happen but the opportunity to get away with it is limited.

I can't see that happening on the national scale where opportunity is greater and social ties are not an issue.

I think that's an excellent observation, and I have noticed it, myself, in relation to business. The more the decision-makers are separated from the people their businesses effect, the more likely they are to exploit and abuse them for personal gain. And I think it's because people really don't want to see themselves behaving like the selfish jerks that they very often are. Our phony justifications for being selfish tend to come up looking pretty weak when we have to see the real suffering we're causing others because of it.

It seems like the solution to that would be fairly simple, though, if the rulers had to live by the rules and conditions they impose on others.

 

[ChristineM]

I think that's an excellent observation, and I have noticed it, myself, in relation to business. The more the decision-makers are separated from the people their businesses effect, the more likely they are to exploit and abuse them for personal gain. And I think it's because people really don't want to see themselves behaving like the selfist jerks that they very often are. Our phony justifications for being selfish tend to come up looking pretty weak when we have to see the real suffering we're causing others because of it.

It seems like the solution to that would be fairly simple, though, if the rulers had to live by the rules and conditions they impose on others.

Would be nice but those rulers are the ones who make the rules. One for themselves and all they need for everyone else

 

[PureX]

Would be nice but those rulers are the ones who make the rules. One for themselves and all they need for everyone else

That's why they have to be held to a higher authority; a constitutional document or writ of national intent. But ultimately, it's the people who have to hold them to it. They will not hold themselves to it on their own. (And right now, here in the U.S., we are not doing this.)

 

[ChristineM]

That's why they have to be held to a higher authority; a constitutional document or writ of national intent. But ultimately, it's the people who have to hold them to it. They will not hold themselves to it on their own. (And right now, here in the U.S., we are not doing this.)

The public holds them to account every few years, and we get the same again

 

[Revoltingest]

The public holds them to account every few years, and we get the same again

I'm not so sure that people want anything different.
Are Dem & Pub party members out in the streets demanding
a primary or nominating process to give them better candidates?
No. Do Dem & Pub leaders ever deviate from increasing taxes,
increasing spending, military foreign adventurism? No.
And, the same people are elected & re-elected.
People complain a lot, but it's so often when the other side is
doing something which would be OK if their own did the same.
They eschew 3rd parties because they prefer what the The Big
Two do.