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Shintoism: A Brief History

Earthling

David Henson
Shintoism is primarily a Japanese religion, a part of the very fabric of it's ethnic culture and society. Though it claims about 119,000,000 members in Japan only about 3 percent of the population actually profess to believe in Shinto. However, Shinto is such a part of the society and daily lives of the people that they are hardly aware that it is even there.

Even those who don't profess Shintoism will buy Shinto traffic safety amulets, participate in annual festivals and have their weddings in the Shinto tradition.

The word Shinto comes from the Chinese, combining kanji (kami), or shin, meaning spirits or deities, and to or do from the Chinese tao meaning way. The "Way of the Gods." Though Shinto existed before the eighth century C.E. the term for it wasn't used until then, in order to distinguish it from Buddhism having been introduced into Japan at that time.

The religion itself probably formulated with the advent of the wetlands. With the cultivation of rice came the organized and stable communities. Agricultural rites would become an important part of Shinto. Gods of nature were created and revered.

The Shinto belief in the departed soul, which is thought to retain its personality but is stained upon death, developed into memorial rites in order to purify the soul and remove all malice. The ancestral spirit then becomes a peaceful guardian spirit. It is interesting that in Japanese culture matters of life are typically reflective of Shinto beliefs whereas matters of death are typically reflective of Buddhist beliefs. Ones birth would be celebrated according to Shinto and ones funeral conducted according to Buddhist tradition.

The ancestral and nature gods are considered to coexist with the living, the spirits are floating in the air all around. People call upon these gods to specific sites which they have sanctified and the spirits temporarily reside in objects of worship such as mountains, trees, mirrors or swords. These objects are called shintai. Eventually shrines were constructed for the purpose of specific worship in the place of objects as shintai. The term 八百万の神, or yaoyorozu no kami, meaning "eight million gods" became "countless gods," reflective of the ever increasing number of spirits.

The development of shrines created specific guardian spirits for each clan until in the seventh century C.E. the imperial family unified the nation and elevated the sun goddess Amaterasu Omikami as the national deity. Gradually the mythical connection of the emperor as a descendant of the gods took hold and in order to support the belief the two major sacred writings of Shinto were completed in the eighth century C.E. The Kojiki and The Nihongi.

Although the Kojiki and Nihongi are important to Shintoism, they are not considered inspired, as the Bible is. A detailed theology, definite doctrine, precepts and even the manner of worship itself isn't important to Shinto thinking. A god of one shrine may be exchanged for another without the worshipper knowing or caring. It is far more important to promote the overall harmony of the community. Disrupting the harmony of the community was a matter of great concern of Shinto rather than morality itself.

What is most important in Shintoism are the rituals and festivals. Centered around the cultivation of rice, the festivals of the ancestral gods brings the community together. In the spring the spirits come down to the village and the people pray for a good crop and in the fall they thank the gods for the harvest. The Mikoshi, or portable shrines, are carried with sake and food for the gods.

Without the rituals of purification Shintoism would most likely not exist. In order to be in union with the gods a person must be purified from all moral impurity and sin. There are two forms of purification. The oharai, wherein the Shinto priest swings an evergreen sakaki branch with paper or flax tied to its tip at an object or person and misogi where water is used.

Shinto is a syncretistic religion, easily fusing elements of other religions such as Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism and Christianity. Buddhism in particular is an example of this. Though there was some dispute as to whether Buddhism should be accepted it eventually was accepted by the sixth century C.E. when Prince Shotoku embraced it. Jinguji, or "shrine-temples," a combination of Buddhist temples and Shinto shrines were built for this reason. The Shinto deities were believed to be the original gods and the bodhisattvas or enlightened ones were believed to be temporary and earthly manifestations of the deities.

In the 13th century the Mongols twice attacked Japan by raiding the island of Kyushu and both times great storms turned them away. The winds, or kaze, were credited to the Shinto gods, or kami and the nation of Japan, with its Shinto gods, was on the way to becoming a divine nation.

In the 18th century Norinaga Motoori, a theologian of Shinto, began a purist movement which attempted to remove outside influences such as Buddhism. Restoration Shinto concentrated on the classics, such as the Kojiki and Nihongi, though in an odd twist of events one of Norinaga's followers, Atsutane Hirata, in removing all Chinese influences, likened the Kojiki Amenominakanushi no kami with the Christian God. Takami musubi became the "High Producing" God and Kami musubi the "Divine Producing" God. The apostate Christian Trinity.

Hirata's teachings looked back to the "ancient ways" and led to the Reverence of The Emperor, though he also taught that all people of Japan were descendants of the gods. In 1868 the Shoguns, who were feudal military dictators, were overthrown and the imperial government was established. The constitution was formed and the emperor was elevated to the "sacred and inviolable" god of State Shinto. In 1882 Emperor Meiji issued the Imperial Rescript, a Japanese holy text, to the armed forces, followed by the Imperial Rescript on Education in 1890. These acted as a sort of bridge between the historical and mythical and solidified the elevation of the Emperor and the State. The sun, as symbol of the goddess Amaterasu Omikami as well as the Imperial Palace were worshipped by the people.

The Mikado's, or Emperor's land was viewed as the center of the world from which must spread the political and religious awareness throughout the entire world. Military conquest became the holy mission of Japan. By 1941 the entire nation was mobilized to that effect. The Kamikaze, or divine wind, would fail them miserably.

In 1945 the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki had a devastating effect upon Shinto and Japanese religious faith. Emperor Hirohito was a defeated mortal and the people began to think that there was no God or Buddha. As is always the case with religion, the original teachings are transmogrified to the detriment of the people. The importance of benefiting the community turned into something which became extremely harmful to the community. The gods become men and men fail.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
What are we supposed to debate? If you didn't intend this to be a debate thread, may we move it to Resources?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Sure. I was wondering where I could put a non debate topic of a religious nature.

There are several places. Interfaith Discussion is a non-debate area, but since this is more of an info-dump, it felt more appropriate in Resources. Speaking of which, it's been moved there. :D
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Good thread in many ways. Better than I expected. Was expecting something hostile.

I am Shinto and Christian.

I keep the Japanese flag and pictures of Japanese Emperors on my wall, as veneration of the "Imperial Spirits" (Kami), and pray for the "land of the Kami".

I also keep a picture of Yasukuni shrine on my wall and pray to the enshrined war dead.

Im very fond of the Prime minister "Shinzo Abe", who is a very devoted Shinto practicioner, who is seeking to bring back Shinto fervor and patriotism in Japan.

I'm one of the rare non-Japanese Shinto adherents, and have only seen one other poster here who appears to embrace Shintoism.

Yes, when state-Shinto got control of Japan, it lead to many atrocities and aggression on other nations.

But it isn't much different than Christians building Empires and colonizing other territories.

When Christianity (Protestant or Catholic) became the state Religion of a King or Queen (or Emperor) we see similar atrocities.

The vast majority of Shinto practicioners don't harm people for any religious reasons.
 
Good thread in many ways. Better than I expected. Was expecting something hostile.

I am Shinto and Christian.

I keep the Japanese flag and pictures of Japanese Emperors on my wall, as veneration of the "Imperial Spirits" (Kami), and pray for the "land of the Kami".

I also keep a picture of Yasukuni shrine on my wall and pray to the enshrined war dead.

Im very fond of the Prime minister "Shinzo Abe", who is a very devoted Shinto practicioner, who is seeking to bring back Shinto fervor and patriotism in Japan.

I'm one of the rare non-Japanese Shinto adherents, and have only seen one other poster here who appears to embrace Shintoism.

Yes, when state-Shinto got control of Japan, it lead to many atrocities and aggression on other nations.

But it isn't much different than Christians building Empires and colonizing other territories.

When Christianity (Protestant or Catholic) became the state Religion of a King or Queen (or Emperor) we see similar atrocities.

The vast majority of Shinto practicioners don't harm people for any religious reasons.
Aren't you concerned with your afterlife as a catholic? Venerating or worshipping any spirit other than the Father, Son and Spirit can get you in hot water, or should I say hot sulphur.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
What are your thoughts on Shinto being originally an export from China that eventually had to hide itself from persecution by becoming mixed with local beliefs? I came across that notion many years ago and it makes sense comparing to so-called religious taoism.

https://www.quora.com/Is-Shintoism-comparable-with-Taoism post by Avery Morrow is on those same lines.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Aren't you concerned with your afterlife as a catholic? Venerating or worshipping any spirit other than the Father, Son and Spirit can get you in hot water, or should I say hot sulphur.
Total judgemental, self-righteous, bigotry garbage!

Ive heard it all before. You are like so many christians, cherry picking and taking scripture out of context.

Scripture is full of confusing parables, hyperbole, poetry, symbolism, and verses that can only be properly understood if you know the time, language, and culture of the people being addressed.

Scripture says many things that are the opposite of what it says elsewhere, leading people to opposite oppinions. Pretty stupid and destructive if you ask me!

Christians incessantly quote Scripture, and use it to argue, waste time, and get nowhere.

Hence, you can stop now!

You are wasting your time and mine! I've heard it all before, seen the damage scripture does, the confusion it causes, and the many contradictions it contains!

So, im quite done wasting time in fruitless arguments about an ancient text that contradicts itself and tells me to pluck out my eyes and call no man father.

Quite stupid, toxic, misleading stuff imo!

Jesus was seen with Mose and Elijah, the Spirit of Samuel told Saul he would soon join him in the "world of the dead"...the slain martyrs in the book of revelation were calling to God for vengeance. The poor man was taken to "Abraham's bosom" etc.

The dead live on and intercede for the world!
 
Total judgemental, self-righteous, bigotry garbage!

Ive heard it all before. You are like so many christians, cherry picking and taking scripture out of context.

Scripture is full of confusing parables, hyperbole, poetry, symbolism, and verses that can only be properly understood if you know the time, language, and culture of the people being addressed.

Scripture says many things that are the opposite of what it says elsewhere, leading people to opposite oppinions. Pretty stupid and destructive if you ask me!

Christians incessantly quote Scripture, and use it to argue, waste time, and get nowhere.

Hence, you can stop now!

You are wasting your time and mine! I've heard it all before, seen the damage scripture does, the confusion it causes, and the many contradictions it contains!

So, im quite done wasting time in fruitless arguments about an ancient text that contradicts itself and tells me to pluck out my eyes and call no man father.

Quite stupid, toxic, misleading stuff imo!

Jesus was seen with Mose and Elijah, the Spirit of Samuel told Saul he would soon join him in the "world of the dead"...the slain martyrs in the book of revelation were calling to God for vengeance. The poor man was taken to "Abraham's bosom" etc.

The dead live on and intercede for the world!
I have no belief in things of the Bible. I mean you no harm.
 

Earthling

David Henson
Good thread in many ways. Better than I expected. Was expecting something hostile.

I am Shinto and Christian.

I keep the Japanese flag and pictures of Japanese Emperors on my wall, as veneration of the "Imperial Spirits" (Kami), and pray for the "land of the Kami".

I also keep a picture of Yasukuni shrine on my wall and pray to the enshrined war dead.

Im very fond of the Prime minister "Shinzo Abe", who is a very devoted Shinto practicioner, who is seeking to bring back Shinto fervor and patriotism in Japan.

I'm one of the rare non-Japanese Shinto adherents, and have only seen one other poster here who appears to embrace Shintoism.

Yes, when state-Shinto got control of Japan, it lead to many atrocities and aggression on other nations.

But it isn't much different than Christians building Empires and colonizing other territories.

When Christianity (Protestant or Catholic) became the state Religion of a King or Queen (or Emperor) we see similar atrocities.

The vast majority of Shinto practicioners don't harm people for any religious reasons.

Hostile? Is this how I am perceived? Hostile!?! I think I'm confused and frustrated by people. Like, for example, I don't understand how you could be a Christian who prays to the dead, which is against Christianity. You don't have to explain that to me, this isn't a debate forum, I'm just saying ...

I always thought that Shinto was an interesting religion, due, in part I guess, to it's syncretism and cultural history. I suppose, as the OP suggests, you could mix Christian teachings with Shinto beliefs. You often name "Saints" and others as well as Jesus, interchanging them with any other kami, or gods.

Have you read the Nihongi or Kojiki? I have read the abridged version of both.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I have no belief in things of the Bible. I mean you no harm.
Thanks...I was on a phone at the time, so it didn't show your "No Religion" comment. I thought you were one of those "Bible-Christians" beating me with Scripture! Telling me I'm going to hell...Sorry, that was just how it appeared! I stand corrected! :thumbsup:
 
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Spiderman

Veteran Member
Hostile? Is this how I am perceived? Hostile!?! I think I'm confused and frustrated by people. Like, for example, I don't understand how you could be a Christian who prays to the dead, which is against Christianity. You don't have to explain that to me, this isn't a debate forum, I'm just saying ...

I always thought that Shinto was an interesting religion, due, in part I guess, to it's syncretism and cultural history. I suppose, as the OP suggests, you could mix Christian teachings with Shinto beliefs. You often name "Saints" and others as well as Jesus, interchanging them with any other kami, or gods.

Have you read the Nihongi or Kojiki? I have read the abridged version of both.
I have read the equivalent of Shinto Scriptures...They aren't called Scriptures, but would be the closest thing...

I know this isn't a debate, but you did say, "I don't know how you could be a Christian who prays to the dead"...Since you said it, I'll respond with no intention of creating a debate. Quite simply, for roughly more than 1400 years, every Church on earth approved of asking the deceased for intercession, and Christians visited the tombs of martyrs and people known for their holiness, and asked them for favors, sometimes making long pilgrimages to their tombs and experiencing miraculous healings and other graces.

In the Bible, a dead man was brought back to life by touching the bones of Elisha.


Also, no where does the Bible say everything must be contained in the Bible to be legitimate and true. No where does the Bible say that the Bible is the sole rule of sacred Theology.

And FYI, I don't worship any God but the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...Dulia, and Hyperdulia, is not the same as LATRIA, the Adoration (worship) that belongs to God alone.:thumbsup::praying:
 

Earthling

David Henson
I have read the equivalent of Shinto Scriptures...They aren't called Scriptures, but would be the closest thing...

I know this isn't a debate, but you did say, "I don't know how you could be a Christian who prays to the dead"...Since you said it, I'll respond with no intention of creating a debate. Quite simply, for roughly more than 1400 years, every Church on earth approved of asking the deceased for intercession, and Christians visited the tombs of martyrs and people known for their holiness, and asked them for favors, sometimes making long pilgrimages to their tombs and experiencing miraculous healings and other graces.

In the Bible, a dead man was brought back to life by touching the bones of Elisha.


Also, no where does the Bible say everything must be contained in the Bible to be legitimate and true. No where does the Bible say that the Bible is the sole rule of sacred Theology.

And FYI, I don't worship any God but the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...Dulia, and Hyperdulia, is not the same as LATRIA, the Adoration (worship) that belongs to God alone.:thumbsup::praying:

Yes, you've mentioned to me that you are more interested in tradition than scripture, so I guess that makes sense as far as that goes.
 

Earthling

David Henson
I would not say you are a Hostile man...but from previous comments from you, you come across as hostile toward Catholicism...But that doesn't make you a hostile person in general.

Good point. And, actually, you are correct. I loath Catholicism with every fiber of my very being. I just didn't realize that I was hostile about it. I try to respect everyone's religious beliefs, but I loath organized religion in general. I don't want to be narrow minded or hostile about it though. It's my position that in order for me to enjoy religious freedom I have to defend everyone else's, but that doesn't mean I have to like them or condone them. At the same time that don't mean I can't have respectful discussions on the subject with those who differ than myself in belief.

Maybe I need to work on that. I have a long history of this. In 1996 when I first started posting on forums things were very different. You didn't have passwords, political correctness and polite, politically correct discourse wasn't an option. It was free for all warfare. You couldn't do a search and give a link to answer a post or present a rebuttal. That seems about all they do these days.

Anyway . . . never mind that. This is about Shinto. Some of the things I find interesting about Shinto, other than the aforementioned syncretism is that it doesn't have a leader or originator that anyone knows, as far as I know. No Jesus or Buddha. The important thing in Shinto is the gathering. Community. Also the fact that most people in Japan don't profess, but it's such a part of the country of Japan that they hardly notice it's everywhere. The Kojiki and Nihongi I found to be just silly. Gods and dragons puking and ****ting various other gods and body parts.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Good point. And, actually, you are correct. I loath Catholicism with every fiber of my very being. I just didn't realize that I was hostile about it. I try to respect everyone's religious beliefs, but I loath organized religion in general. I don't want to be narrow minded or hostile about it though. It's my position that in order for me to enjoy religious freedom I have to defend everyone else's, but that doesn't mean I have to like them or condone them. At the same time that don't mean I can't have respectful discussions on the subject with those who differ than myself in belief.

Maybe I need to work on that. I have a long history of this. In 1996 when I first started posting on forums things were very different. You didn't have passwords, political correctness and polite, politically correct discourse wasn't an option. It was free for all warfare. You couldn't do a search and give a link to answer a post or present a rebuttal. That seems about all they do these days.

Anyway . . . never mind that. This is about Shinto. Some of the things I find interesting about Shinto, other than the aforementioned syncretism is that it doesn't have a leader or originator that anyone knows, as far as I know. No Jesus or Buddha. The important thing in Shinto is the gathering. Community. Also the fact that most people in Japan don't profess, but it's such a part of the country of Japan that they hardly notice it's everywhere. The Kojiki and Nihongi I found to be just silly. Gods and dragons puking and ****ting various other gods and body parts.
I admire you for recognizing your faults, even if I don't agree with your loathing some spiritual traditions I cherish! But that is okay! :)

Yes, correct, Shintoism has no founder...or at least, we don't know who it is, which makes it so interesting.

Yes, Shintoism is everywhere in Japan, including video games, art, designs, books, anime, cartoons, Japanese movies, Japanese flag, just everywhere...and they still have an Emperor, only country with an Emperor, who is the Pope of the Kami, Pope of Shintoism...I know he isn't a "Pope", but his Shinto office resembles a type of Papacy in many ways.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Shintoism is primarily a Japanese religion, a part of the very fabric of it's ethnic culture and society. Though it claims about 119,000,000 members in Japan only about 3 percent of the population actually profess to believe in Shinto. However, Shinto is such a part of the society and daily lives of the people that they are hardly aware that it is even there.

Even those who don't profess Shintoism will buy Shinto traffic safety amulets, participate in annual festivals and have their weddings in the Shinto tradition.

The word Shinto comes from the Chinese, combining kanji (kami), or shin, meaning spirits or deities, and to or do from the Chinese tao meaning way. The "Way of the Gods." Though Shinto existed before the eighth century C.E. the term for it wasn't used until then, in order to distinguish it from Buddhism having been introduced into Japan at that time.

The religion itself probably formulated with the advent of the wetlands. With the cultivation of rice came the organized and stable communities. Agricultural rites would become an important part of Shinto. Gods of nature were created and revered.

The Shinto belief in the departed soul, which is thought to retain its personality but is stained upon death, developed into memorial rites in order to purify the soul and remove all malice. The ancestral spirit then becomes a peaceful guardian spirit. It is interesting that in Japanese culture matters of life are typically reflective of Shinto beliefs whereas matters of death are typically reflective of Buddhist beliefs. Ones birth would be celebrated according to Shinto and ones funeral conducted according to Buddhist tradition.

The ancestral and nature gods are considered to coexist with the living, the spirits are floating in the air all around. People call upon these gods to specific sites which they have sanctified and the spirits temporarily reside in objects of worship such as mountains, trees, mirrors or swords. These objects are called shintai. Eventually shrines were constructed for the purpose of specific worship in the place of objects as shintai. The term 八百万の神, or yaoyorozu no kami, meaning "eight million gods" became "countless gods," reflective of the ever increasing number of spirits.

The development of shrines created specific guardian spirits for each clan until in the seventh century C.E. the imperial family unified the nation and elevated the sun goddess Amaterasu Omikami as the national deity. Gradually the mythical connection of the emperor as a descendant of the gods took hold and in order to support the belief the two major sacred writings of Shinto were completed in the eighth century C.E. The Kojiki and The Nihongi.

Although the Kojiki and Nihongi are important to Shintoism, they are not considered inspired, as the Bible is. A detailed theology, definite doctrine, precepts and even the manner of worship itself isn't important to Shinto thinking. A god of one shrine may be exchanged for another without the worshipper knowing or caring. It is far more important to promote the overall harmony of the community. Disrupting the harmony of the community was a matter of great concern of Shinto rather than morality itself.

What is most important in Shintoism are the rituals and festivals. Centered around the cultivation of rice, the festivals of the ancestral gods brings the community together. In the spring the spirits come down to the village and the people pray for a good crop and in the fall they thank the gods for the harvest. The Mikoshi, or portable shrines, are carried with sake and food for the gods.

Without the rituals of purification Shintoism would most likely not exist. In order to be in union with the gods a person must be purified from all moral impurity and sin. There are two forms of purification. The oharai, wherein the Shinto priest swings an evergreen sakaki branch with paper or flax tied to its tip at an object or person and misogi where water is used.

Shinto is a syncretistic religion, easily fusing elements of other religions such as Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism and Christianity. Buddhism in particular is an example of this. Though there was some dispute as to whether Buddhism should be accepted it eventually was accepted by the sixth century C.E. when Prince Shotoku embraced it. Jinguji, or "shrine-temples," a combination of Buddhist temples and Shinto shrines were built for this reason. The Shinto deities were believed to be the original gods and the bodhisattvas or enlightened ones were believed to be temporary and earthly manifestations of the deities.

In the 13th century the Mongols twice attacked Japan by raiding the island of Kyushu and both times great storms turned them away. The winds, or kaze, were credited to the Shinto gods, or kami and the nation of Japan, with its Shinto gods, was on the way to becoming a divine nation.

In the 18th century Norinaga Motoori, a theologian of Shinto, began a purist movement which attempted to remove outside influences such as Buddhism. Restoration Shinto concentrated on the classics, such as the Kojiki and Nihongi, though in an odd twist of events one of Norinaga's followers, Atsutane Hirata, in removing all Chinese influences, likened the Kojiki Amenominakanushi no kami with the Christian God. Takami musubi became the "High Producing" God and Kami musubi the "Divine Producing" God. The apostate Christian Trinity.

Hirata's teachings looked back to the "ancient ways" and led to the Reverence of The Emperor, though he also taught that all people of Japan were descendants of the gods. In 1868 the Shoguns, who were feudal military dictators, were overthrown and the imperial government was established. The constitution was formed and the emperor was elevated to the "sacred and inviolable" god of State Shinto. In 1882 Emperor Meiji issued the Imperial Rescript, a Japanese holy text, to the armed forces, followed by the Imperial Rescript on Education in 1890. These acted as a sort of bridge between the historical and mythical and solidified the elevation of the Emperor and the State. The sun, as symbol of the goddess Amaterasu Omikami as well as the Imperial Palace were worshipped by the people.

The Mikado's, or Emperor's land was viewed as the center of the world from which must spread the political and religious awareness throughout the entire world. Military conquest became the holy mission of Japan. By 1941 the entire nation was mobilized to that effect. The Kamikaze, or divine wind, would fail them miserably.

In 1945 the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki had a devastating effect upon Shinto and Japanese religious faith. Emperor Hirohito was a defeated mortal and the people began to think that there was no God or Buddha. As is always the case with religion, the original teachings are transmogrified to the detriment of the people. The importance of benefiting the community turned into something which became extremely harmful to the community. The gods become men and men fail.

I acknowledge the impact on Shinto with the failure of militarism in World War II.

My primary comment at present involves Buddhism and World War II. Many Buddhists opposed the war, many were put in prison or just out right conscripted into the military., but the passive nature of Zen, and the obligation to the filial authority of the state and tradition resulted in the leadership to pledge support of the state. The belief in Buddhism was not dependent on the success of Japanese militarism as Shinto was.

Similar problems existed concerning Christianity.in Germany in World War I and II. Many German Christians supported German Militarism and Continental Nationalism in both wars despite Hitler's atheist socialism, and the persecution and ethnic cleansing of Jews, in part based on Martin Luther's writings concerning the Jews, and wide spread anti-Semitism of Europe. .

Cultures anchored ancient traditions and beliefs are malleable enough to reform and justify their belief as the world changes around them.in both the East and the West.
 

Earthling

David Henson
I acknowledge the impact on Shinto with the failure of militarism in World War II.

My primary comment at present involves Buddhism and World War II. Many Buddhists opposed the war, many were put in prison or just out right conscripted into the military., but the passive nature of Zen, and the obligation to the filial authority of the state and tradition resulted in the leadership to pledge support of the state. The belief in Buddhism was not dependent on the success of Japanese militarism as Shinto was.

Similar problems existed concerning Christianity.in Germany in World War I and II. Many German Christians supported German Militarism and Continental Nationalism in both wars despite Hitler's atheist socialism, and the persecution and ethnic cleansing of Jews, in part based on Martin Luther's writings concerning the Jews, and wide spread anti-Semitism of Europe. .

Cultures anchored ancient traditions and beliefs are malleable enough to reform and justify their belief as the world changes around them.in both the East and the West.

Very interesting and informative post, Shunyadragon. To me, it raises a good question. Should religion be malleable? With Shinto, it seems to me, that malleability is inherent, a natural part of it, but with others, like Buddhism and Christianity they aren't and so in my opinion shouldn't be messed with. Am I right?
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Aren't you concerned with your afterlife as a catholic? Venerating or worshipping any spirit other than the Father, Son and Spirit can get you in hot water, or should I say hot sulphur.
Are you really concerned about @PopeADope ? Don't seem that way ! Seems more like blowing of steam/sulpher after what Christians usual tell. Understandable:D
 
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Earthling

David Henson
Are you really concerned about @PopeADope ? Don't seem that way ! Seems more like blowing of steam/sulpher after what Christians usual tell. Understandable:D

That's a really good question for me as well, not just with Pope, but everybody I talk to. Though I never thought I was doing this for people to be saved, or converted, but for them to have access to the accurate knowledge in order to make a decision either way. With me I've been wondering, is it my ego more than anything?

I can't stand it when people don't agree with me. Don't learn from me. Don't listen to me. It seems to me that they are all, in one way or another, making up weird **** that doesn't make any sense just to avoid accurate knowledge. Either for science, tradition, the Church, the Watchtower . . . I sometimes wrestle with that. I try to respect other's beliefs, but I don't, really. I respect their right to believe but hate their beliefs. To be honest.
 
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