Shi'a Muslim and Bahai Only: The Resurrection of 'Dead' and Day of Judgment

[InvestigateTruth]

Dear Friends Salam,

These are some of my recent findings from Shia Sources, (mainly Bihar-alanwar) regarding Resurrection of the Dead, Judgment Day and revival. You can find most of them here:
http://www.shiavault.com/books/the-promised-mahdi-part-one/chapters/7-5

They are verses of Quran, each one followed by an interpretation given by Infalible Shia Imams. I highlighted the parts related to questions:

“…until they see what they were threatened with, either the punishment or the hour; then they shall know who is in more evil plight and weaker in forces.” (Surah Maryam 19:75)

Also in Al-Kafi, it is narrated from Abu Basir from Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) that he said: “‘When they see what they have been promised of refers to the rise of the Qaim, and that is ‘the Hour.’

“The hour drew nigh…” (Surah Qamar 54:1)
In Bihar-alanwar it is narrated that it refers to the uprising of the Qaim (a.s.).

“Know that Allah gives life to the earth after its death; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you that you may understand.” (Surah Hadid 57:17)
In Bihar-alanwar it is narrated that Imam Muhammad Baqir (a.s.) said: “Allah, the Exalted will revive it through the Qaim after its death; its death implies disbelief of its inhabitants, because the disbelievers are dead.”

In Ghaibat of Shaykh Tusi through the same chain of narration from Ibne Abbas about the verse it is narrated that he said: “It means that the earth will be restituted through the Qaim of Aale Muhammad (a.s.) after its death, that is, after the inequity of its rulers. We explained to you the signs, through the Qaim of Aale Muhammad (a.s.), so perhaps you may understand.”

“And those who accept the truth of Judgment Day…” (Surah Maarij 70:26)

It is mentioned in Al-Kafi from Imam Muhammad Baqir (a.s.) that he said: “That is one who testifies and believes in our Qaim when he reappears.”

“For when the trumpet is sounded,…” (Surah Muddaththir 74:8)
It is mentioned in Ghaibat Nomani narrating from Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) that when he was asked about the interpretation of this verse, he said:
An Imam from among us will disappear. Thus when the Almighty Allah intends to make him appear, He will make a sign appear in his heart and in this way he will appear with the command of the Almighty Allah.

Jabir has narrated from Imam Muhammad Baqir (a.s.) that he said with regard to the words of the Almighty Allah:

“Dead (are they), not living…” (Surah Nahl 16:21)
It implies infidels and not believers.

“…and they know not when they shall be raised.” (Surah Nahl 16:21)
It implies that they will not bring faith, they will remain as polytheists.


There are many more of these verses and Hadithes. It all shows that, by the Term 'Dead', is meant 'Disbeliever', and by the Term raising to Life it is meant 'guiding to bring Faith or become believers', and by the term 'The Hour' it is meant 'Rise of Qaim', and by the term Judgement Day, it is meant 'The appearence of Qaim', Correct? It is also said, the Qaim comes with a new Judgement, correct?

So, the questions are:

1) Where does the idea of literal and physical raising dead to life come from?

2)With regards to the following verse, Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) said that it is about Rajat:

“They shall say: Our Lord! twice didst Thou make us subject to death, and twice hast Thou given us life, so we do confess our faults; is there then a way to get out?” (Surah Momin 40:11)


According to this verse, God gives twice Life and twice Death, Once through Return of Mahdi, and the second time, return of Christ? The first Life is given through the guidance from Qaim, but they disbelieve, so they will be judged as 'Dead'. That would be the first Death. Then second time, through return of Christ another Life comes to revive them, but they disbelieve again, and that is the second Death? Correct? Is this how it should be interpreted? How did the infallible Imam interpreted it?

3) According to infallible Imams and Quran, what happens to the soul after separation from the body when a person dies? Is it not determined what is the state of it, after the Soul is separated from the body? Then what is the need for a physical resurrection? I remember a verse in Quran, when a man is killed in the Path of God, The Almighty says to him: "you have done well!, now enter the Paradise" Do you know which verse it is?

 

[wizanda]

1) Where does the idea of literal and physical raising dead to life come from?

Feel for you, as you've got conflicting prophetic texts.... The resurrection of the dead is prophesied within the Bible, and Zoroastrianism before that.

According to this verse, God gives twice Life and twice Death, Once through Return of Mahdi, and the second time, return of Christ?

The original idea presented within most religious texts, is that everyone shall be brought back, then weighed by their good and bad deeds; then the wicked will be removed, and the rest stay to be in an age of Godliness....

The idea that the Imam Mahdi and Isa are coming back, and we all live happily ever after, is only presumed based on a faulty understanding of the overall texts.

 

[Khudayar]

salam.

3- Probably you are referring to Fajr 27-30:

“O serene soul! (27) Return to your Lord well-pleased (with your blissful destination), well-pleasing (to your Lord). (28) So enter among My (righteous) servants (29) and enter My Paradise.” (30)

http://www.tanzil.net/#trans/en.shakir/89:27

1-2 Please refer to the speech "the Intermediate World and Hereafter" by Hajj Khalil Jaffer.

Thanks. ma salam.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Salaam,

Here are Two More Hadithes:

قال علي عليه السلام: "أمّا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم فخاتم النبيين، ليس بعده نبي ولا رسول، وختم برسول الله الأنبياء إلى يوم القيامة"
الاحتجاج، ج 1، ص 220

لا کتاب بعد کتابی٬ لاشریعه بعد شریعتی الی یوم القيامه؛

این حدیث در کتاب خاتميت٬ نوشته ی روحی روشنی آمده است


Based on These Hadithes, Imam Ali said, There is No Messenger, or New Book after the Seal of Prophets, until Day of Resurrection.

According to many Hadithes the Imams said, by the 'Hour', or Resurrection of the earth after its death, is meant the appearance of the Qaim. It is the Qaim, who revives the earth after its Death.

1) Therefore, does not this mean, there is no Messenger, or New Book after Muhammad, until the appearance of the Qaim?
2) Do you think when Imam Ali said 'until Day of Resurrection', He was not aware that Day of Resurrection was the Day of appearance of Qaim?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Salaam,
Here are Two More Hadithes:
قال علي عليه السلام: "أمّا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم فخاتم النبيين، ليس بعده نبي ولا رسول، وختم برسول الله الأنبياء إلى يوم القيامة"
الاحتجاج، ج 1، ص 220
لا کتاب بعد کتابی٬ لاشریعه بعد شریعتی الی یوم القيامه؛
این حدیث در کتاب خاتميت٬ نوشته ی روحی روشنی آمده است
Based on These Hadithes, Imam Ali said, There is No Messenger, or New Book after the Seal of Prophets, until Day of Resurrection.
According to many Hadithes the Imams said, by the 'Hour', or Resurrection of the earth after its death, is meant the appearance of the Qaim. It is the Qaim, who revives the earth after its Death.
1) Therefore, does not this mean, there is no Messenger, or New Book after Muhammad, until the appearance of the Qaim?
2) Do you think when Imam Ali said 'until Day of Resurrection', He was not aware that Day of Resurrection was the Day of appearance of Qaim?

If I may take the liberty to add that in Scripture ' the Day of Resurrection ' is a thousand-year day, or a millennium-long day over earth, when the just and unjust will have a healthy physical resurrection back to life on a beautiful paradisical earth when earth's nations will be healed and death will be No more - Revelation 22:2 ; Revelation 21:4-5
That is when father Abraham, and those of Hebrews chapter 11, will see the fulfillment of God's promise to father Abraham - Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18; Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39 that all nations of earth will be blessed. Blessed with the benefits of healing - Revelation 22:2 - and seeing the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on earth again.

 

[mojtaba]

"بسم الله الرحمن الرحیم"​

1.Firstly I bring Hadiths which prove that Restriction Day(يوم القيامة) and the Day of Rising of al-Qa'im are two distinguish days.
2.Then, I will describe those Hadiths which interpret 'The Hour'(الساعة) or the 'Day of Retribution'(يوم الدين) as the Day of Rising of al-Qa'im.

1.Hadiths that prove that the Hour(الساعة), or Restriction Day(یوم القیامة) are not the Day of Rising of al-Qa'im

A.Sheykh Saduq has said in tow of his books, Kamalluddin Wa Tamam al-Ni'mah and Oyun Akhbar al-Ridha, that,

لقد حدثني أبي عن أبيه عن آبائه عن علي (ع) أن النبي (ص) قيل له: يا رسول الله (ص) متى يخرج القائم من ذريتك؟ فقال: مثله مثل الساعة «لا يجليها لوقتها إلا هو ثقلت في السماوات والارض لا يأتيكم إلا بغتة»ـ​

my father has narrated to me through his forefathers through Amirul Momineen (a.s.) that,
the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) was asked, ‘O Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.), when is the Qaim from your progeny going to rise?’ He said, ‘His example is like the example of the Hour: 'None but He shall manifest it at its time. It will be momentous in the heavens and the earth. It will not come on you but suddenly.[Surah Araaf 7:187]’.”
(Sources: Oyun Akhbar al-Ridha, vol. 1, pg. 297/ Kamalluddin Wa Tamam al-Ni'mah, pg. 373)

This Hadith says that the Day of Rising of al-Qaim is like the Hour, not the Hour itself.

B.Sa'd has narrated from Ibn Abi al-Khattab and Ibn Yazid, from Ahmad ibn al-Hasan al-Meythami, from Muhammad ibn al-Husayn, from Aban ibn Othman, From Musa al-Hinat that,
Imam Sadiq(peace be upon him) said:

سمعت أبا عبدالله (علیه السلام) يقول : أيام الله ثلاثة : يوم يقوم القائم (علیه السلام) ، ويوم الكرة ، ويوم القيامة​

"The Days of Allah are three: the Day of Rising of al-Qa'im, and the Day of Return(Raj'ah), and the Day of Resurrection."

(Sources: Al-Khisal, pg. 108 / Bihar al-Anwar, vol 53, pg. 63 / Mukhtasar Basa'ir al-Darajat, pg. 18)
This Hadith has also two other chains of the narrators.See Bihar al-Anwar.

So, These Days are three distinguish Days.

C. Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father and he from Ibn Abi Omayr and he from Hummad who has narrated the following,

أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال ما يقول الناس في هذه الآية ويوم نحشر من كل أمة فوجا قلت يقولون انها في القيامة قال ليس كما يقولون إن ذلك في الرجعة أيحشر الله في القيامة من كل أمة فوجا ويدع الباقين إنما آية القيامة قوله «وحشرناهم فلم نغادر منهم أحداً»ـ​

Imam Sadiq said( to me ) , " What do people say about this verse [of Quran], 'On that day We shall resurrect from every nation a group[27:83]'?
I then replied," they say that, this verse is about the Day of Resurrection."
Imam then said, " What they say is not correct, this verse is certainly about Raj'ah(Day of Return). Will Allah resurrect from every nation a group of them in the Day of Resurrection and then leave out the others?! The verse which is about the Day of Resurrection is only the ff verse, 'And We shall muster them, and We will not leave out anyone of them.'
(Source:Tafsir al-Qomi, vol. 1, pg. 24)
This Hadith also has another Isnad(chain of the narrators). That is, Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father and he from Ibn Abi Omayr and he from Abi Basir who has narrated from Imam Sadiq.(See, Tafsir al-Qomi, vol. 1, pg. 24)

Therefore, these Hadiths clearly say that the Day of Rising of al-Qa'im, the Day of Raj'ah(Return) and the Day of Resurrection are three differnt Days.

2.Why do the 'Hour' or the 'Day of Retribution' is interpreted as the 'Day of Rising of Imam Mahdi(peace be upon him)' in some Hadiths?

It is because all these meanings(the Day of Rising of al-Qa'im, the Day of Raj'ah and the Day of Resurrection) are interrelated, so much so that they can be said to be basically one.

A.Day of Resurrection
It appears from the characteristics and details of the Day of Resurrection, mentioned in the Qur'an, that it will be a day when no intermediate cause will hinder one from the signs of Allah; there will remain no veil on the face of truth. All illusions will vanish and the signs of Allah will appear in their perfect manifestation. It is obvious from the Qur'an and Hadiths that human beings, i.e., this species of homo sapiens who are descended from Adam and his wife, will become extinct in this world and only then will this great day dawn upon them.

B.Day of Return(Raj'ah)
The verses and Hadiths of the Day of Raj'ah(Return) show that the world is proceeding towards a day when the signs of Allah will appear in their perfect manifestation; man will not disobey Allah, but shall worship Him with a sincere and pure heart, untainted by the desires of this world; and he will not be deceived by Satan. At that time(i.e., the time of global government of Imam Mahdi) some dead persons - some friends of Allah and some of his enemies - shall be returned to the world again, and the truth will be separated from the falsehood.

C.Day of Rising of Imam Mahdi
At the Day of Rising of al-Qa'im also the truth will be manifested perfectly.


Consequently, It appears from above that the Day of Rising of al-Qa'im and Day of Return shall be one of the stages of the Day of Resurrection. But they will be a lesser manifestation, because there shall remain, at those times, the possibility, to a certain extent, of evil and mischief, which will be impossible on the Day of Resurrection. Those two Days are like the Day of Resurrection, but are not the Day of Resurrection itself. So, There are traditions narrated from the infallible Imams that "The days of Allah are three: the Day of reappearance, and the Day of Return, and the Day of Resurrection."
Indeed, the three days are one in their nature but different in degrees. It is because of this oneness of essence that a single verse is at different times interpreted by all three days.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Dear Mojtaba,

1. The Hadithes that you provided are all fine, however if it was wrong to say that the time of rise of Qaim is the 'Hour' or 'the Day of Judgement', why then, in Hadithes, the infallible Imams said so? I mean, if the rise of Qaim could not be called 'the Hour' and 'judgement Day', would it be reasonable that the infallible Imams, apply these terms to rise of Qaim?

2. Could it be that the expression of the 'Day of Resurrection', have multiple interpretations? For example, on one hand it is the Day of Rising of Qaim, as the Imams said. On the other hand, it is a period that Mankind are raised from their Death of Unbelief. The Period that the earth is given a new life after its death through the Words of Guidance that are revealed through the Qaim.

3. This is another verse regarding Qaim:

“The guilty shall be recognized by their marks…” (Surah Rahman 55:41)

In Ghaibat Nomani it is narrated from Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) that this verse means that: “Allah recognizes them (the guilty); however, this verse has come about the Qaim; he will recognize them from their appearance and he and his companions will strike them with the sword.”

Quran promises that on Day of Judgement Allah is Manifested. However Imam Sadiq says, It is Qaim who recognize them, in place of God. If Qaim is not the Manifestation of the Allah on the Day of Judgement, why then Imam (a.s) says so?

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

The whole purpose of this thread is a vain attempt to prove "yaum al-Qiyamah" is the day of the appearance of the Mahdi (as Baha'is believe) and not "Judgment Day". The reason OP has started this thread is to justify the tradition forged by the founder of Baha'ism, in which he claims there is a famous tradition that states "Yaum al-Qiamah" refers the day that the Mahdi appears:

"Have they not heard the well-known tradition: “When the Qa’im riseth, that day is the Day of Resurrection?”" (Baha’u’llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 144.)
« آیا روایت مشهور را نشنیده اند که می فرماید: «اذا قامَ القائِمُ قامَتِ القیامَة»؟»
​

There is no such hadith in the Shia corpus and this is a lie made up by Baha'u'llah. I am giving the OP until eternity to find a source for this hadith...

 

[mojtaba]

Dear Mojtaba,
1. The Hadithes that you provided are all fine, however if it was wrong to say that the time of rise of Qaim is the 'Hour' or 'the Day of Judgement', why then, in Hadithes, the infallible Imams said so? I mean, if the rise of Qaim could not be called 'the Hour' and 'judgement Day', would it be reasonable that the infallible Imams, apply these terms to rise of Qaim?

You cannot find a Hadith which says that the Day of rising of Qa'im is the Day of Resurrection(یوم القیامة).
I have searched our books. There are not a Hadiths such that. If you find, tell me.

But, I said you that, the Hour(الساعة) and the Day of Retribution(یوم الدین, note this is not the day of Resurrection i.e., یوم القیامة ) are not the Day of Rising of Qa'im. Indeed, the day of rising of Qa'im and those two days have some similarities. So prophet Muhammad when people asked him about the Day of rising of Qa'im, he replied: ‘His example is like the example of the Hour: 'None but He shall manifest it at its time.' (See my previous post) So, because there are some similarities between that day and those two days, sometimes Imams have interpreted the verses which are about the Hour or the day of Retribution(not day of Resurrection) as the day of rising of Qa'im.

2. Could it be that the expression of the 'Day of Resurrection', have multiple interpretations? For example, on one hand it is the Day of Rising of Qaim, as the Imams said. On the other hand, it is a period that Mankind are raised from their Death of Unbelief. The Period that the earth is given a new life after its death through the Words of Guidance that are revealed through the Qaim.

No.
As previously mentioned, there are not any Hadith that says that the Day of rising of Qa'im is the Day of Resurrection.
But on contrary, there are Hadiths that say, day of rising of Qa'im is before the Day of Resurrection.
According to the Hadiths, the rising of Qa'im is in this world, but there are Hadiths wich say that the Day of Resurrection is not in this world,

Imam Sadiq said: (see the chain of the narrators in the source)

و إن المؤمنين ليرونه في الدنيا قبل يوم القيامة. وليست الرؤية بالقلب كالرؤية بالعين تعالي الله عما يصفه المشبهون والملحدون​

"The pious believers will see him(Allah's manifestation, not Allah Himself) before the Day of Resurrection(یوم القیامه) in this world. Undoubtedly, seeing with the heart is not the same as seeing with the eyes and God is greater than what the Mushabbih sect and the atheists have ascribed to Him".
(Source: Bihar al-Anwar, vol.4, pg. 44, 45 )

So this world is before the Day of Resurrection. Because the Day of Rising of Qa'im is in this world, so that it is not the Day of Resurrection.

3. This is another verse regarding Qaim:

“The guilty shall be recognized by their marks…” (Surah Rahman 55:41)

In Ghaibat Nomani it is narrated from Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) that this verse means that: “Allah recognizes them (the guilty); however, this verse has come about the Qaim; he will recognize them from their appearance and he and his companions will strike them with the sword.”

Quran promises that on Day of Judgement Allah is Manifested. However Imam Sadiq says, It is Qaim who recognize them, in place of God. If Qaim is not the Manifestation of the Allah on the Day of Judgement, why then Imam (a.s) says so?

This Hadith is weak. Indeed, there were some people who believed that infallible Imams are Allah(SWT) in this world. Imam Sadiq said about them that they are not Muslim. Read the Hadith,

Sadir has said that he asked abu ‘Abdallah[ Imam Sadiq, the sixth Shia Imam ] (a.s.) the following,(see the chain of the narrators in the source)
"A certain group of people believe that you(i.e. Imams) are gods. They read to us from the Qur'an about it. And it is He Who in heaven is God and in earth is God(i.e. the God in the earth are Imams!)."(43:84). The Imam (a.s.) said, "O Sadir, my hearing, my sight, my skin, my flesh, my blood and my hair are (all) disdain such people, and Allah also disdains them. They do not follow my religion and the religion of my forefathers. I swear by Allah, Allah will not place me with them on the Day of Resurrection.
(source: Al-Kafi by Koleyni, vol. 1, pg. 269)

But that Hadith which you have mentioned has two chains of the narrators. In both of them there are a person that his name is "ﻣﺤﻤﺪ ﺑﻦ ﺳﻠﻴﻤﺎﻥ ﺍﻟﺪﻳﻠﻤﻲ". He has mentioned in Rijal books[i.e., books which are about the narrators of Hadiths] as exaggerating person[i.e., who believes that Imams are Allah in this world].
(Reference, Mu'jamul Rijal al-Hadith, vol. 17, pg, 135 and 136)

So this Hadith is so weak and we can not talk about it.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You cannot find a Hadith which says that the Day of rising of Qa'im is the Day of Resurrection(یوم القیامة).
I have searched our books. There are not a Hadiths such that. If you find, tell me.

The Hadithes that I found are already in my first post.
I post one of them again:

Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) said: “‘When they see what they have been promised of refers to the rise of the Qaim, and that is ‘the Hour.’

Here is another one:
Imam Sadiq said:

"يوم الدين خروج القائم "

(Judgement Day is rise of Qaim)
Sources: http://lib.eshia.ir/11008/24/326

Here is another, and very clear one:

"يوم القيامة وهو يوم قيامالقائم"

Imam sadiq said, ...Day of Judgement, that is Day of Rising the Qaim.

Source: http://lib.eshia.ir/11008/24/398

In fact Imam Sadiq says: إلى يوم القيامة وهو يوم قيام القائم

and considering:

لا کتاب بعد کتابی٬ لاشریعه بعد شریعتی الی یوم القيامه؛

What would you conclude from these two?

But, I said you that, the Hour(الساعة) and the Day of Retribution(یوم الدین, note this is not the day of Resurrection i.e., یوم القیامة ) are not the Day of Rising of Qa'im. Indeed, the day of rising of Qa'im and those two days have some similarities. So prophet Muhammad when people asked him about the Day of rising of Qa'im, he replied: ‘His example is like the example of the Hour: 'None but He shall manifest it at its time.' (See my previous post) So, because there are some similarities between that day and those two days, sometimes Imams have interpreted the verses which are about the Hour or the day of Retribution(not day of Resurrection) as the day of rising of Qa'im.


No.
As previously mentioned, there are not any Hadith that says that the Day of rising of Qa'im is the Day of Resurrection.
But on contrary, there are Hadiths that say, day of rising of Qa'im is before the Day of Resurrection.
According to the Hadiths, the rising of Qa'im is in this world, but there are Hadiths wich say that the Day of Resurrection is not in this world,

Imam Sadiq said: (see the chain of the narrators in the source)

و إن المؤمنين ليرونه في الدنيا قبل يوم القيامة. وليست الرؤية بالقلب كالرؤية بالعين تعالي الله عما يصفه المشبهون والملحدون​

"The pious believers will see him(Allah's manifestation, not Allah Himself) before the Day of Resurrection(یوم القیامه) in this world. Undoubtedly, seeing with the heart is not the same as seeing with the eyes and God is greater than what the Mushabbih sect and the atheists have ascribed to Him".
(Source: Bihar al-Anwar, vol.4, pg. 44, 45 )

So this world is before the Day of Resurrection. Because the Day of Rising of Qa'im is in this world, so that it is not the Day of Resurrection.



This Hadith is weak. Indeed, there were some people who believed that infallible Imams are Allah(SWT) in this world. Imam Sadiq said about them that they are not Muslim. Read the Hadith,

Sadir has said that he asked abu ‘Abdallah[ Imam Sadiq, the sixth Shia Imam ] (a.s.) the following,(see the chain of the narrators in the source)
"A certain group of people believe that you(i.e. Imams) are gods. They read to us from the Qur'an about it. And it is He Who in heaven is God and in earth is God(i.e. the God in the earth are Imams!)."(43:84). The Imam (a.s.) said, "O Sadir, my hearing, my sight, my skin, my flesh, my blood and my hair are (all) disdain such people, and Allah also disdains them. They do not follow my religion and the religion of my forefathers. I swear by Allah, Allah will not place me with them on the Day of Resurrection.
(source: Al-Kafi by Koleyni, vol. 1, pg. 269)

But that Hadith which you have mentioned has two chains of the narrators. In both of them there are a person that his name is "ﻣﺤﻤﺪ ﺑﻦ ﺳﻠﻴﻤﺎﻥ ﺍﻟﺪﻳﻠﻤﻲ". He has mentioned in Rijal books[i.e., books which are about the narrators of Hadiths] as exaggerating person[i.e., who believes that Imams are Allah in this world].
(Reference, Mu'jamul Rijal al-Hadith, vol. 17, pg, 135 and 136)

So this Hadith is so weak and we can not talk about it.

1. Another Hadith that I found with regards to coming of Qaim and the End of the World:

Muhammad has said, "If there were to remain in the life of the world but one day, God would prolong that day until He sends in it a man from my community and my household. His name will be the same as my name. He will fill the earth with equity and justice as it was filled with oppression and tyranny."

In this Hadith, coming of the Qaim marks the end of the world, and beginning of a new world (earth), since according to this Hadith and other Hadithes, Allah through the Qaim, changes the earth into another earth after its death.
If the End of the World was literally the final Day on the earth, what was the point of sending Qaim just on the Last Day to unite people and establish true Religion again?

2. In Quran it is said on the Day of Resurrection " the earth shall shine with the light of her Lord'
but in another Hadith, referring to Qaim it is said "and the earth shall be illuminated by his effulgence and divine revelation" (Biharal-anwar, vol 51-3, 34-Ghaibat tusi, p.184)
If the Day of Resurrection was literally the end of the World, what is the point that the earth shines with the light of her Lord? and is not this Hadith saying the same thing as Quran is saying?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Other questions:
1. If a Hadith is considered weak, does it mean it is certainly false?
2. Quran teaches Allah cannot be seen (No vision takes Hims), and also Hadithes states that Allah does not have a Form. How else could He be manifested, if not His Words and Will be manifested through the Qaim as the Hadithes alludes to?

 

[mojtaba]

The Hadithes that I found are already in my first post.
I post one of them again:

Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) said: “‘When they see what they have been promised of refers to the rise of the Qaim, and that is ‘the Hour.’

Here is another one:
Imam Sadiq said:

"يوم الدين خروج القائم "

(Judgement Day is rise of Qaim)
Sources: http://lib.eshia.ir/11008/24/326

Here is another, and very clear one:

"يوم القيامة وهو يوم قيامالقائم"

Imam sadiq said, ...Day of Judgement, that is Day of Rising the Qaim.

Source: http://lib.eshia.ir/11008/24/398

In fact Imam Sadiq says: إلى يوم القيامة وهو يوم قيام القائم

and considering:

لا کتاب بعد کتابی٬ لاشریعه بعد شریعتی الی یوم القيامه؛

What would you conclude from these two?

I am sorry. Your Hadiths in this post do not have any chain of the narraters. You are discussing with me by Hadiths which have not any chain of the narrators, but rather my Hadiths have at least two chains of the narrators.

I think you are going to prove yourself by so weak Hadiths(If we could consider them as Hadith). Also, some of your other Hadiths in other threads were distorted or shortened to prove your fake beliefs.

So, your Hadiths fall into three categories,
1. Fake Hadiths
2. Hadiths which have not any chain of the narrators
3.Hadiths which have a chain of the narrators, but between the narrators there are lier ones.

Go ahead and prove yourself by these Hadiths and do not consider other numerous Sahih(uthentic) ones.

1. Another Hadith that I found with regards to coming of Qaim and the End of the World:

Muhammad has said, "If there were to remain in the life of the world but one day, God would prolong that day until He sends in it a man from my community and my household. His name will be the same as my name. He will fill the earth with equity and justice as it was filled with oppression and tyranny."

In this Hadith, coming of the Qaim marks the end of the world, and beginning of a new world (earth), since according to this Hadith and other Hadithes, Allah through the Qaim, changes the earth into another earth after its death.
If the End of the World was literally the final Day on the earth, what was the point of sending Qaim just on the Last Day to unite people and establish true Religion again?

This Hadith proves me!

Muhammad has said, "If there were to remain in the life of the world but one day, God would prolong that day until He sends in it a man from my community and my household. His name will be the same as my name. He will fill the earth with equity and justice as it was filled with oppression and tyranny."

This Hadith says that Day of rising of Qa'im is in this world, and if there were to remain in the life of the world but one day[i.e., only one day has remain to end of this world], Allah would not distroy this world, but rather He would prolong that last day of this wold until He sends in it Qa'im.

Prophet Muhammad was going to say that certainly before the Day of Resurrection which is indeed the end of this world, Allah would send Qa'im to govern in this world.

2. In Quran it is said on the Day of Resurrection " the earth shall shine with the light of her Lord'
but in another Hadith, referring to Qaim it is said "and the earth shall be illuminated by his effulgence and divine revelation" (Biharal-anwar, vol 51-3, 34-Ghaibat tusi, p.184)
If the Day of Resurrection was literally the end of the World, what is the point that the earth shines with the light of her Lord? and is not this Hadith saying the same thing as Quran is saying?

I brought for you two Hadiths which say that یوم القیامة(the Day of Resurrection) is not in this world.

According to that Hadith which you have mentioned, in the time of the rising of the Qa'im, the earth of this world shall be illuminated by the light of Guidance of Imam Mahdi.

But in the Day of Resurrection, Allah will directly illuminate the earth of the Day of Resurrection which is not identical to the earth of this world.

[14:48]The Day when the earth is turned into another earth and the heavens [as well], and they are presented before Allah, the One, the All-paramount

 

[mojtaba]

Other questions:
1. If a Hadith is considered weak, does it mean it is certainly false?

If you want to prove your beliefs through so weak Hadiths and do not consider the Sahih[authentic] ones, go ahead.

2. Quran teaches Allah cannot be seen (No vision takes Hims), and also Hadithes states that Allah does not have a Form. How else could He be manifested, if not His Words and Will be manifested through the Qaim as the Hadithes alludes to?

I said you that Hadith is so weak. I do not discuss with you about so weak Hadiths.

Please reply to the question of @spirit_of_dawn in post #8.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

If you want to prove your beliefs through so weak Hadiths and do not consider the Sahih[authentic] ones, go ahead.


I said you that Hadith is so weak. I do not discuss with you about so weak Hadiths.

Please reply to the question of @spirit_of_dawn in post #8.

Dear Mojtaba, If you have questions about Baha'i Scriptures, You should ask in the Baha'i Directory. If you quote the question there, we will reply. Thanks.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I am sorry. Your Hadiths in this post do not have any chain of the narraters.

It seems like, it has a chain:

كنز : روي مرفوعا عن عمرو بن شمر عن جابر عن أبي عبد الله


When there are a lot of Hadithes, that says the same thing, doesn't that make the Hadith strong?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

[14:48]The Day when the earth is turned into another earth and the heavens [as well], and they are presented before Allah, the One, the All-paramount

Quran teaches that, God is not seen by eyes, and Imams taught that He doesn't have form. How can be at present of Allah then?

In Quran, it is said, Whoever obey Messenger of God, has obeyed God Himself. If we apply the same logic, can that be the answer to my own question? So, being at present of the Qaim, is being in Present of Allah? Right?

 

[mojtaba]

Dear Mojtaba, If you have questions about Baha'i Scriptures, You should ask in the Baha'i Directory. If you quote the question there, we will reply. Thanks.

So reply here, Baha'ullah and Bihar al-Anwar book

Why did Bahau'llah make fake Hadiths and said they are in Shi'i books? If he was prophet did not do such doings.

It seems like, it has a chain:

كنز : روي مرفوعا عن عمرو بن شمر عن جابر عن أبي عبد الله

When there are a lot of Hadithes, that says the same thing, doesn't that make the Hadith strong?

No, this is not a full and authentic cahin of the narrators. مرفوعا means in this case, the cahin of the narrators is not full/complete, and there are not the narrators between the auther of the book and Amrubn Shimr[عمرو بن شمر ].

Because there are numerous authentic Hadith which oppose this weak[non-authentic] hadith, so it is so weak.

Quran teaches that, God is not seen by eyes, and Imams taught that He doesn't have form. How can be at present of Allah then?

In Quran, it is said, Whoever obey Messenger of God, has obeyed God Himself. If we apply the same logic, can that be the answer to my own question? So, being at present of the Qaim, is being in Present of Allah? Right?

You are going to prove yourself by the following Hadith which you mentioned in the post #10,

2. In Quran it is said on the Day of Resurrection " the earth shall shine with the light of her Lord'
but in another Hadith, referring to Qaim it is said "and the earth shall be illuminated by his effulgence and divine revelation" (Biharal-anwar, vol 51-3, 34-Ghaibat tusi, p.184)
?

Why do you -like your prophet- change the Hadith and make a fake one? The red part is not in the Hadith.
The text and true translation of the Hadith,

إن قائمنا إذا قام أشرقت الارض بنور ربها ، واستغنى العباد عن ضوء الشمس ، وذهبت الظلمة​

Indeed, when our Qa'im rises up, the earth shall be illuminated by the light of his Lord, and the servants[of Allah] would became reach from the light of the sun and the darkness will go.
(Bihar, v52, p337)

Stop, isn't it enough @InvestigateTruth?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So reply here, Baha'ullah and Bihar al-Anwar book

Why did Bahau'llah make fake Hadiths and said they are in Shi'i books? If he was prophet did not do such doings.


No, this is not a full and authentic cahin of the narrators. مرفوعا means in this case, the cahin of the narrators is not full/complete, and there are not the narrators between the auther of the book and Amrubn Shimr[عمرو بن شمر ].

Because there are numerous authentic Hadith which oppose this weak[non-authentic] hadith, so it is so weak.


You are going to prove yourself by the following Hadith which you mentioned in the post #10,


Why do you -like your prophet- change the Hadith and make a fake one? The red part is not in the Hadith.
The text and true translation of the Hadith,

إن قائمنا إذا قام أشرقت الارض بنور ربها ، واستغنى العباد عن ضوء الشمس ، وذهبت الظلمة​

Indeed, when our Qa'im rises up, the earth shall be illuminated by the light of his Lord, and the servants[of Allah] would became reach from the light of the sun and the darkness will go.
(Bihar, v52, p337)

Stop, isn't it enough @InvestigateTruth?

Dear Mojtaba,

You said the Red Part is not in the Hadith.

That translation is not mine. It is from a Shia Site:

http://www.shiavault.com/books/miky...a-lil-qai-m-vol-1/chapters/37-the-letter-fa-f


You also, made a new thread, in debate section. I used to do some debates in the past years. But, I am not interested in debate style conversations anymore, as I learned it is against the Teachings of Baha'i Faith.
But if you kindly, ask that question in Baha'i Forum, we will reply.
I only continue this discussion, if it is in a friendly manner.

The Purpose of the recent discussions, has not been to prove anything! I said from beginning, it is for the purpose of mutual understanding. I personally learned a lot about your view so far.

 

[spirit_of_dawn]

Dear Mojtaba,
You said the Red Part is not in the Hadith.
That translation is not mine. It is from a Shia Site:
http://www.shiavault.com/books/miky...a-lil-qai-m-vol-1/chapters/37-the-letter-fa-f

Yes from a Shia cite that gives the following reference: "Biharul Anwar; Vol. 52, Pg. 290" while you had provided this source:

"and the earth shall be illuminated by his effulgence and divine revelation" (Biharal-anwar, vol 51-3, 34-Ghaibat tusi, p.184)

You are obviously not here for a polite discussion. You have turned this into an outright debate. I've seen the threads you start on bahiforums: when one reads those your true intentions here become obvious.

To answer your question, the Earth is illuminated by the light of its Lord (rab) when the Mahdi rises and also on judgment day. Do you have a problem understanding this? If a candle illuminates one room (lets call it room a) and we take it to another room (room b) so that room b is also illuminated, does this mean room a and room b are the same? No, but somehow you think since the Earth is illuminated when the Mahdi arrives and it is also illuminated on judgment day, then these are both one, which I would call very naive at the least.

 

[mojtaba]

.
But if you kindly, ask that question in Baha'i Forum, we will reply.

Dear @InvestigateTruth
I have sent 37 kindly posts to reply your questions.

Any time I have sent posts in Baha'i DIR to share my knowledge with Baha'is, the Baha'is reported my posts and then they were deleted. So that, I created a thread in the debate section.

It is from a Shia Site:
http://www.shiavault.com/books/miky...a-lil-qai-m-vol-1/chapters/37-the-letter-fa-f

It should be said that the translation of the site is not correct.

In the first page of the site it has been written,
Shaivault.com is in beta and under active development! Please keep in mind books may not be in their cleanest state, and that bugs may exist. Thank you!

Dear InvestigateTruth, please forgive me for my incorrect saying about you that you have changed the translation.