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Sex Work Marches Towards Legality

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
If business were legal & above board, pimps would
appear to have less power over workers.
Pimps would largely be useless. They could not hold onto workers by force. Males that took advantage of prostitutes could be charged with rape. If a prostitute gets raped it is almost always by a customer. Both pimps and abusers would be subject to prosecution. Right now prostitutes cannot report their pimps because they would go to jail too. The take risky "dates" because rash decisions need to be made. The current system enables abuse of women.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Bad logic, murder will still exist. The topic was trafficking, not the act of prostitution. Try again.
Too many people imagine that government is good & capable.
The problem is that those are traits at odds with each other.
If we had China's government, it would be more capable of
curbing prostitution. But it's not good government.
Good government means allowing more liberty, but that
limits enforcement of laws. We see this with prohibition,
the War On Drugs, & sex work.
Laws should be compatible with both goals & government
traits. Expecting government to make make us all model
citizens (in its eyes), is a fantasy. Better to liberalize sex
work laws, & assist those in need.....IMO.
 
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InChrist

Free4ever
Sounds like "re-education camps" like China would use.
Also reminds me of A Clockwork Orange.
Hatred of men is a bit extreme a characterization. But
putting women on a pedestal, wanting them to be chaste,
& seeing men as lustful perps is a very common thing.
I hope you can believe me when I say I would not want to see anything like the re-education camps of the CCP . That’s not what I mean by re-education. I don’t even really think morality can or should be legislated.

I suppose my hope is that people and men in this case (who are usually the buyers of women & children for sex) would simply gain an awareness that people are not products for purchase. There are many organizations now trying to spread that message.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I hope you can believe me when I say I would not want to see anything like the re-education camps of the CCP . That’s not what I mean by re-education. I don’t even really think morality can or should be legislated.
Good.
I was worried about you.
I suppose my hope is that people and men in this case (who are usually the buyers of women & children for sex) would simply gain an awareness that that people are not products for purchase. There are many organizations now trying to spread that message.
Child sex workers would still be a no no.
They lack the ability to consent.
People who want them do need help overcoming that desire.
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
This is good news IMO.
Manhattan to Stop Prosecuting Prostitution, Part of Nationwide Shift
Excerpted....
The Manhattan district attorney’s office announced Wednesday that it would no longer prosecute prostitution and unlicensed massage, putting the weight of one of the most high-profile law enforcement offices in the United States behind the growing movement to change the criminal justice system’s approach to sex work.

The district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., revealed the new policy as he appeared virtually in court to ask a judge to dismiss 914 open cases involving prostitution and unlicensed massage, along with 5,080 cases in which the charge was loitering for the purposes of prostitution.

The law that made the latter charge a crime, which had become known as the “walking while trans” law, was repealed by New York State in February.

Mr. Vance said that with the announcement, his office had fully shifted its approach to prostitution. Many of the cases he moved to dismiss dated to the 1970s and 1980s, when New York waged a war against prostitution in an effort to clean up its image as a center of iniquity and vice.

“Over the last decade we’ve learned from those with lived experience, and from our own experience on the ground: Criminally prosecuting prostitution does not make us safer, and too often, achieves the opposite result by further marginalizing vulnerable New Yorkers,” Mr. Vance said in a statement.

The office will continue to prosecute other crimes related to prostitution, including patronizing sex workers and sex trafficking.

Manhattan will join Baltimore, Philadelphia and other jurisdictions that have declined to prosecute sex workers. Brooklyn also does not prosecute people arrested for prostitution, but instead refers them to social services before they are compelled to appear in court — unless the district attorney’s office there is unable to reach them.

I would be willing to bet $1 that the legalization of prostitution only has majority support among atheists.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
You can't possibly be trying to say that laying sod is as bad as letting some stranger (who may be disgusting physically and otherwise, as well as have STDs) **** you orally, vaginally and/or anally. I mean, I hate my job but I'm not going to insult victims of this by saying it's as bad as having my body and dignity violated from the inside out.

I would absolutely prefer to be penetrated by a stranger for money, as long as I could refuse the job, set the boundaries and make good money, than to stay outside in the heat (100+ Fº) with the sun burning my skin. The latter would feel like torture to me. And I am straight!
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Interesting article.
Decriminalization is an important aspect, but I think there are other steps just as necessary to reduce trafficking.
Trafficking may be over rated. I need to see if I can find a recent investigation into trafficking in the U.S.. The massage industry is no longer being targeted in New York City as you can see in the OP. Though there are claims of trafficking it appears that most employees were not forced into the business. It was a choice out of need.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Right, no objective moral standards. Whatever feels good or makes a buck?
It can be more complex than that. Atheists & religious folk
typically share many values because of shared species & culture.
We like fairness, hate murder, like liberty, hate oppression, etc.
One can reason objectively from those values.

Oddly, this heathen often gets more grief over
disagreement with atheists than with many believers.
But none want to excoriate me than some liberals.
(The kavorka is ineffective on them, eh.)
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I would absolutely prefer to be penetrated by a stranger for money, as long as I could refuse the job, set the boundaries and make good money, than to stay outside in the heat (100+ Fº) with the sun burning my skin. The latter would feel like torture to me. And I am straight!

I used the example of sod laying. I was two toned after a summer of that. Blue jeans were worn to protect one's legs but the shirts came off almost immediately. I was a deep dark brown on top and white white white below the waist.
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
It can be more complex than that. Atheists & religious folk
typically share many values because of shared species & culture.
We like fairness, hate murder, like liberty, hate oppression, etc.
One can reason objectively from those values.

I agree and like to think I was a good person during the decades I rejected God.

My point is that 'you' choose those values rather arbitrarily, for a number of reasons, some of them unselfish no doubt. But there is no objective basis for them - you are your own master, yes? - and therefore they are fluid and corruptible.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I agree and like to think I was a good person during the decades I rejected God.

My point is that 'you' choose those values rather arbitrarily, for a number of reasons, some of them unselfish no doubt. But there is no objective basis for them - you are your own master, yes? - and therefore they are fluid and corruptible.
I don't choose any basic values.
I just have them.
And I cannot choose to ditch them.
Genetics & environment have me what I am.
(They're to blame.)

I notice great variation in behavior by people
of the same religion. My theory is that they too
are who they are, & read their scripture to comport
with their inherent values.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
It can be more complex than that. Atheists & religious folk
typically share many values because of shared species & culture.
We like fairness, hate murder, like liberty, hate oppression, etc.
One can reason objectively from those values.

Oddly, this heathen often gets more grief over
disagreement with atheists than with many believers.
But none want to excoriate me than some liberals.
(The kavorka is ineffective on them, eh.)
Excuse me, Bubba --- this liberal doesn't do much in the way of excoriating you! (Except, of course, when you are obviously and egregiously wrong.)

On a side note, one of my very favourite lines (from a great playwrite by the name of George Bernard Shaw) has to do with discovering that the man who wishes to marry her niece is an orphan. It typifies how we humans judge one another all too frequently (which means we often judge things over which those we judge have little or no control).

Lady Bracknell: “To lose one parent, Mr. Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness.”
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Somewhat related to the topic, I was watching this documentary on Starz the other day about strippers in Los Angeles. One of them had a master's degree in psychology, and she tried to work in the mental health field in the Bay Area, but couldn't make enough money for a decent living. As a stripper, she makes easily six figures (one person mentioned it's as high as $700,000 a year). Of course, that's LA where they likely get a lot of high dollar clientele.

I've also read articles about escorts who ostensibly enjoy the life and make pretty good bank. They almost make it seem glamorous, as if they're celebrities or high fashion models.

But I've also read about the horrors of sex trafficking and the overall downside of an industry which has a lot of scumbags, sleazeballs, and other such miscreants. One would think that it would be easier for people to report sex traffickers to the authorities if prostitution were made legal, but the point has been raised that it would still happen anyway.

In any case, it seems the focus of enforcement should be upon the scumbags and miscreants involved in the sex trafficking and horrific abuses. If it's a matter of two consenting adults of sound mind, without duress or coercion, then I think the authorities can find better things to do.
 
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