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sex education

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by MoonWater, Nov 27, 2012.

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  1. MoonWater

    MoonWater Warrior Bard
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    This topic was brought up in another thread so I thought I'd give the topic its own thread for debate/discussion.

    So here's a few questions to get us started.

    What are your thoughts on sex education? Should it be done in schools? left to the parents? Why? If it is taught in schools what should be covered, what should be avoided and when should it start?

    Personally I am in favor of comprehensive sex education starting as early as elementary school, perhaps even younger. At the elementary school level children would start of by learning that boys have a penis and girls have a vagina and other bits of basic biology and the basics of how children are made and that attraction has a range to it beyond just male-female and basic behavioral ethics such as it's okay to touch yourself but not to coerce others to touch you. Come middle school we would get into more advanced biology, start learning about STDs/STIs and all kinds of contraceptive methods. And come high school start teaching them about ethics and morality when it comes to sex, things to be aware of in order to protect yourself from things like date rape, the various stages of pregnancy(though that could also start in middle school) as well as miscarriages, what to expect, different symptoms and going over the options available to one should they wind up pregnant now as a teenager especially if their family might be less than supportive. Abortion I feel should also be covered.

    Also with the possible exception of abortion(though ideally that too) all of these topics would be required course work the way math and science are required.
     
  2. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Aside from educating people for medical/health or safety reasons, I don't really care that much about the issue. A bigger deal of it is made than is necessary. I would prefer the education come from medical professionals (such as your doctor) than the public schooling system. Or of the public schooling system does it, it needs to bring back other courses relating to basic life skills and home economics and nest it within that.
     
  3. Lady B

    Lady B noob

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    Here is the major problem I have with your ideals. Who's ethics and morality is being taught? Yours? Mine? Are you assuming we will all agree in one moral system? Surely you jest, The public school system in the USA does what the government wants it to do not what parents want for their kids. That is why parents must take back the control and teach our kids sexual moral conduct at home not rely on others to teach them their views on the matter.I am not against health class, I had it in 6th grade and I was fine learning of std's and other risks, no problem with that at all, but when the schools pass out condoms and condone promiscuity as long as it is latex controlled, no thanks!

    As for myself I do take the responsibility,I do not have the mindset that it won't happen in my home, I have seen it all believe me, I worked many years in a crisis pregnancy center and my children have been involved as well. Maybe this is not what some parents choose to do but it has been a deterrent for many kids who's families let them see reality and the repercussions and hardships teens bring onto themselves when they commit an adult act while they are still children.
     
  4. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    I'm not seeing how passing out condoms is condoning promiscuity, but okay. I thought it was about giving kids free and easy access to birth control when we know damned well they're going to have sex anyway. Yay for preventing teen pregnancies! :D
     
  5. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Reposting from the other thread:

    It is not a matter of "allowing government" to do anything, but rather of being aware of the fact that there will be others interacting with my hypothetical children. Not only other people, but also their very own hormones.

    There is little to no hope of convincing youngsters of having no interest in sex by denying them information. Quite on the contrary, efforts in that direction are a sure-fire recipe for having them learn that the parents are not worthy of being let in their doubts and dilemmas. The results are very much a disaster, typically in the form of early, unplanned pregnancies.

    Besides, losing one's own children confidence to the point that he or she won't share such an important part of their development is a terrible loss in and of itself.



    I don't know anything about any liberal agenda, but I sure fail to see how repression, secrecy and their consequences are worth fighting for.



    So you are stating a belief that youngsters experience sex because they are told to, and that they might be reasonably expected to, I don't know, "behave" if they were taught such an anti-natural thing as abstinence?

    Sorry, but I must say that such a belief is a dangerous bet at best, and most likely a full tragic mistake. Children shouldn't be taught to feel guilty simply because they want to follow their biological urges. They need information, acceptance and support if they are to handle such challenges at all well. To deny them such a fair chance is fully irresponsible from any parent.

    Granted, some parents will not be up to frank talk about those matters. That is what uncles, grandparents and, yes, schools are for.



    No, Lady B; encouraging them not to use condoms, and not to admit that they are sexual beings, now that is condoning destructive behavior - and lots of teen pregnancies.



    For one thing, that simply has no chance of working. Such an approach breeds duplicity and secrecy, not abstinence.



    So you are relying on obedience to stop them from experiencing sex?

    That is a very dangerous approach, I fear.

    I hope that you at least make them aware of what they should guard against. Ignorance is no protection from malicious people, you know.



    We should abstain from having rules that presume to tell when or how they should want to have sex in the first place. They are a terrible waste of energy in the best of cases. Your concept of "rebellion" seems quite odd to me.


    Sure.
     
  6. Lady B

    Lady B noob

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    You may as well bring all our posts on this subject over here too so I won't be repeating myself,ok?
     
  7. Lady B

    Lady B noob

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    abstinence is the best prevention of teen pregnancy, sorry my birth control wins hands down as for it's prevention properties :D
     
  8. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Except that it doesn't work. Oh, maybe for very sporadic cases. But GWB attempted to encourage that, and it was (quite predictably) a disaster. Ask Sarah Palin.
     
  9. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    I'm pretty sure the abstinance-only programs have been proven statistically to be very ineffectual. Oh hey, look, there's one of those reports right here!.

     
  10. Lady B

    Lady B noob

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    Ok let us be fair then, you assert that condom passing is a great way of preventing teen pregnancy, I assert that teaching children sex is special and should be abstained from while your minds are still developing is a great prevention method. Let both be allowed in the school system then can we? no, why? because abstinence seems to stem from a religious concept and that just can't be taught in schools in this era we live in. Instead we all who are dependant on a public education for our children must accept your methods and that is it.
     
  11. MoonWater

    MoonWater Warrior Bard
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    `

    Except I'm not saying schools should pass out condoms or that they should "condone" promiscuity. I actually do feel that while all forms of contraception should be taught about thouroughly, that schools should make it clear that due to the risks of pregnancy and stds always being present it is always better to wait until you are mature enough to handle the responsibility and to limit your number of sexual partners in order to avoid or at least limit exposure to stds.

    As for ethics and morality I was thinking more along the lines of making sure the other party is consenting, that a drunken yes does not make it ok nor does giving someone a date rape drug make them fair game, how to deal with uncomfortable situations and advances, what the various laws are in the area and what to do if a law is broken, the importance of communication, that it's okay to say no and you should never feel pressured, that sort of thing. Essentially it would only be ethics and morals in the sense of making sure they know how best to avoid hurting themselves or their partner, making sure they know rape, even non-violent rape, is always wrong, etc.

    And I'd rather children be taught in an enviironment where they can learn from professionals rather than rely on parents who, for the most part, either have very little information to offer, avoid the subject all together and refuse to talk about or talk about it very little, or are completely misinformed on the subject. It's great that you take responsibility, unfortunately not all parents do. And just because schools are giving kids a comprehensive sex education doesn't mean the parents can't supplement that education at home and try to instill their own ideals.
     
  12. Lady B

    Lady B noob

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    In the rare instances where this has been allowed to be taught it has had a positive impact on many teens, I have witnessed many -promise ring- pacts between teens and I feel it is vital to continue .
     
  13. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    No, not really.



    Woa there. Do you really mean it? :confused: I'm disappointed.

    No, the real reason is that it isn't really possible to teach both knowledge and ignorance at the same time to the same people.

    Actually, it is not even possible to choose ignorance, either. If we care for the safety of children they better be aware of which dangers they should avoid.



    Nope, you definitely should opine on what is or should be taught. But from a realistic perspective if at all possible.
     
  14. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Which positive impact would that be?
     
  15. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Not exactly. I'd assert that easily accessible birth control is a great way of preventing unwanted pregnancy in general, regardless of age demographics. It's particularly important to have free access for teens in my country as they don't always have the resources to obtain it independently. Teens are going to screw each other no matter what anybody tells them, so it makes good sense to have birth control free and easily accessible to them. This doesn't mean you can't also teach your kids that "sex is special" and whatnot, but I abide by a "better safe than sorry" policy. You may teach them "sex is special" but the moment they fall head-over-heels for that boy sitting next to them in class, there's a fair chance they're going to give that something special to them.

    I don't see abstinence as a strictly religious thing, personally. Not allowing abstinence education for that reason is stupid. The reason it's not a good idea to use it is because it simply doesn't work. >_>
     
  16. Lady B

    Lady B noob

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    Those morals and ethics you describe I would encourage, problem is this is not what I see happening in our sex ed classes here in my state at least. If schools want to stop at the health risks and assault risks, drug rapes and safety measures regarding such, I would be on board completely. The problem I see is teaching our kids how to orgasm, how to stimulate oneself or others and giving them condoms for when they choose to explore. I would much prefer letting parents teach their children about their bodies, their hormones and their sexual feelings or if they cannot taking them to someone who can. I would even be supportive if the class was offered as an off-campus option, parents can see and view any and all materials used and make informed decisions whether it is best for their own child. Why not?
     
  17. MoonWater

    MoonWater Warrior Bard
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    teens can be given comprehensive information about birth control while still emphasizing throughout their education that abstinence is the best method for preventing pregnancy. It's not like those in favor of sex education are trying to get schools to say "here's a condom now go have sex". We're trying to make sure children and teens everywhere are well informed on the topic. And waiting until they are teenagers to broach the topic is inefficient since even a basic education in child development will tell you that children start developing their sexuality and exploring it from a very young age. Infants and toddlers will explore their genitals with their hands and I've seen infant boys get erections when whipping off their penis with a baby wipe while changing their diaper. It's perfectly natural. Plus children start asking and wondering about "where babies come from" from as early as 2 or 3 especially if mommy gets pregnant again. We are sexual beings from birth to death and we should be taught how to deal with that responsibly as early as possible. Waiting only encourages our children to learn about sex from unreliable sources like their peers, rumors, or the internet.
     
  18. Quintessence

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    I'm curious where these schools exist that actually teach kids the art of having sex (e.g. stimulation, orgasms). I don't recall ever watching porn in sex ed or remotely touching upon that subject at all. Instead we wasted our time labeling detailed anatomical diagrams of penises and vaginas.
     
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  19. Trey of Diamonds

    Trey of Diamonds Well-Known Member

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    I'd say I agree with you.
     
  20. MoonWater

    MoonWater Warrior Bard
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    I'll admit that I am also a bit leary of the idea of schools teaching children or teens how to orgasm or stimulate themselves, though this is the first I've heard of a sex education program doing that. Though they could and probably should be taught about what happens when you orgasm, what causes it and what not but that's just biology. And I don't think schools should avoid telling teens how to orgasm or stimulate because I think its wrong for them to do that or that teens should avoid that, honestly I think it's perfectly natural and that they should be encouraged to explore their own bodies. It's just that I feel that kind of thing is something teens can learn on their own through self-exploration. About the only things I feel should be covered in terms of self-exploration is how to make sure you avoid hurting yourself.

    And the whole idea of parents "finding someone who can": 1. the schools would fill that criteria and 2. if your not looking to the schools or a doctor you have to be really careful as that could potentially open the door to sexual predators who will take advantage of the ignorance of both the parent and child. Trust me, this happens, I've heard stories *shudders*

    So in that sense sex education in schools is also making sure children and teens learn about the topic in a safe and supportive environment.
     
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