Seventh-day Adventist's Fundamental Beliefs

[RND]

Seventh-day Adventists accept the Bible as their only creed and hold certain fundamental beliefs to be the teaching of the Holy Scriptures. These beliefs, as set forth here, constitute the church's understanding and expression of the teaching of Scripture. Revision of these statements may be expected at a General Conference session when the church is led by the Holy Spirit to a fuller understanding of Bible truth or finds better language in which to express the teachings of God's Holy Word.

[URL="http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html"]Fundamental Beliefs
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[Buttons*]

How do you feel about Jewish law?

 

[RND]

How do you feel about Jewish law?

Not to be coy but I think I would need some clarification as to what exactly Jewish law is before answering. Perhaps you are referring to Mosaic law?

 

[Buttons*]

Not to be coy but I think I would need some clarification as to what exactly Jewish law is before answering. Perhaps you are referring to Mosaic law?

I guess I mean the laws in Leviticus, yes the laws of Moses... are there any other types of Jewish law? Just the ones in the Old Testament will do alright I think.

 

[RND]

I guess I mean the laws in Leviticus, yes the laws of Moses... are there any other types of Jewish law? Just the ones in the Old Testament will do alright I think.

Well, there are many different ways that "law" can be viewed in the Old Testament. There's the Torah and the Tanakh and of those there are various other commandments, ordinances and statutes. Those are further delineated into ceremonial, health, civil and moral laws so it can get kinda confusing sometimes!

As for the overall law though I'm definitely a believer that God knew what He was talking about when He gave it! Is there a specific question I could help with?

 

[ayani]

hey, RND.

good to meet you, and God bless you.

 

[RND]

Nice to meet you too ayani. http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/../members/ayani-2368.html

 

[invisible chzbrgr]

Welcome, RND.

I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.

Can you expand upon the meaning of remnant? Is the remnant your church itself, or only certain people from it? As I read the summary, I wasn't sure of the relationship between the remnant and the rest of the body of Christ, which is everyone both in Seventh Day and in all other Christian congregations (which idea, by the way, I like). If everyone is equal in Christ, are the remnants just more equal than others? Any clarification would be appreciated.

As I understand it (and please correct me if I'm wrong) the Seventh-Day Adventists are so named because to the lord, a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years a day. The seventh day, is the millennium when Jesus comes to reign for a thousand years.

How does the church now consider the fact that 6,000 years (aka 6 days) have already passed since Genesis; we should already be in the millennium, no? Or is that a mystery? Or am I asking the wrong question?

Thanks.

 

[RND]

Welcome, RND.

I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.

Can you expand upon the meaning of remnant? Is the remnant your church itself, or only certain people from it? As I read the summary, I wasn't sure of the relationship between the remnant and the rest of the body of Christ, which is everyone both in Seventh Day and in all other Christian congregations (which idea, by the way, I like). If everyone is equal in Christ, are the remnants just more equal than others? Any clarification would be appreciated.

Sure, I'd be glad to answer your questions. Regarding the remnant Seventh-day Adventist's do not believe this refers to "just" SDA's but everyone that proclaims the word of God as truth, is obedient to that word based upon the understanding they have and have been taught, and has accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior based on the individual willingness to accept Him.

This is why I can believe that Native Americans that lived in the United States at the time of Christ and were clearly monotheist accepted Christ based on the desire too know Him.

As I understand it (and please correct me if I'm wrong) the Seventh-Day Adventists are so named because to the lord, a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years a day. The seventh day, is the millennium when Jesus comes to reign for a thousand years.

How does the church now consider the fact that 6,000 years (aka 6 days) have already passed since Genesis; we should already be in the millennium, no? Or is that a mystery? Or am I asking the wrong question?

Thanks.

invisible chzbrgr I believe you are referring to Bishop Usher's chronology but SDA's are known as Seventh-day Adventist's because we keep the seventh day sabbath as our "holy" or "congregational" day (See Exodus 20:8-11).

As for your millennium question that's why most Adventist's believe that Jesus Christ's appearing is soon to happen. BTW, sometimes when I say "Adventist's" I may not necessarily be referring to SDA's. Anyone that believes in Jesus Christ's soon appearance is an "Adventist's!"

Thanks for your questions.

 

[invisible chzbrgr]

invisible chzbrgr I believe you are referring to Bishop Usher's chronology but SDA's are known as Seventh-day Adventist's because we keep the seventh day sabbath as our "holy" or "congregational" day (See Exodus 20:8-11).

As for your millennium question that's why most Adventist's believe that Jesus Christ's appearing is soon to happen. BTW, sometimes when I say "Adventist's" I may not necessarily be referring to SDA's. Anyone that believes in Jesus Christ's soon appearance is an "Adventist's!"

Thanks for your questions.

OK I see where my confusion originated. I was reading Seventh-Day Adventist as "we are people who believe the Advent comes on the seventh day," not that "we are Adventists who also happen to keep the sabbath." Got it now! Thanks.

So you believe Jesus will reappear in your lifetime? (Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not attacking, just trying to understand.) It seems to me that there have been many times in history where folks have believed all the signs were there, prophecies were being fulfilled, the dates added up a certain way... what makes you think this time it'll happen for sure?

Or is that even important to you, as you would make the same preparations regardless.

Thanks again.

 

[RND]

OK I see where my confusion originated. I was reading Seventh-Day Adventist as "we are people who believe the Advent comes on the seventh day," not that "we are Adventists who also happen to keep the sabbath." Got it now! Thanks.

Great! Understanding is cool!

So you believe Jesus will reappear in your lifetime? (Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not attacking, just trying to understand.) It seems to me that there have been many times in history where folks have believed all the signs were there, prophecies were being fulfilled, the dates added up a certain way... what makes you think this time it'll happen for sure?

Honestly? In regards to my present "physical" state I can't say for sure. I just turned 47 a few days ago and I could get hit by a bus.....

But I do believe the Bible says that at the "last trump" (Day of Atonement language) that the "dead" in Christ shall rise first. So whether I'm physically alive or have passed away I do believe I will "see" Jesus Christ coming in the clouds with great power.

Or is that even important to you, as you would make the same preparations regardless.

Thanks again.

No, it's not that important to me. He's coming. He promised. I'm good with that. I'll tarry in any state I'm in an await His coming.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I followed the link in the OP, and under the section on prophecy, they specifically mentioned Ellen G. White; what prophecies has she made, and how have they been incorporated into the SDA Church today?

Also, I see from her bio that she was somewhat of a champion of vegetarianism; is it common for Seventh-Day Adventists to be vegetarian as well?

 

[RND]

I followed the link in the OP, and under the section on prophecy, they specifically mentioned Ellen G. White; what prophecies has she made, and how have they been incorporated into the SDA Church today?

Ellen White has made many prophecies in relation to the Bible. She prophesied that Protestants would rejoin with the RCC, which they have. But keep in mind that to be a prophet one doesn't always have to "predict" the future.

Also, I see from her bio that she was somewhat of a champion of vegetarianism; is it common for Seventh-Day Adventists to be vegetarian as well?

Most, not all, Seventh-Day Adventist's are indeed vegetarians. While I am not I don't eat a lot of red meat or chicken. I eat fish.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ellen White has made many prophecies in relation to the Bible. She prophesied that Protestants would rejoin with the RCC, which they have.

They have? :sarcastic Which Protestants?

I know some Protestants who even go so far as to say that Catholics "aren't Christians". If Protestants have rejoined with the RCC, I don't think these people got the memo.

But keep in mind that to be a prophet one doesn't always have to "predict" the future.

Right - I understand that the term is often used as something closer to "God-appointed spokesperson" than "psychic". It just seemed from that FAQ that SDAs put a great deal of emphasis on her writings. I'm not familiar with her, so I wondered what they said, and how they're used by the SDA Church and its members.

Most, not all, Seventh-Day Adventist's are indeed vegetarians. While I am not I don't eat a lot of red meat or chicken. I eat fish.

Okay... so would it be fair to say that her writings on that issue are taken as the advice of a respected person rather than commandments of God?

I've heard a little bit (a very little bit) about connections between Kellogg's and SDA beliefs about health and diet, but I don't really know the details or what Seventh-Day Adventists actually believe about what they should and shouldn't eat.

 

[Clear]

RND - Frubals to you for your wonderful clarity and agree with your "request for specificity" regarding the question as to "Jewish Law" (in post #2) .

Regarding the Trinity, the SDA link says:

"There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons.

The SDA link describes the three members of this trinity separately and begin with God the Father as "the Creator, Source, Sustainer, and Sovereign of all creation." The link describes the Son Jesus thusly : "God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ". And it describes the Holy Spirit as being "active with the Father and the Son in Creation, incarnation, and redemption."

Do the SDA believe these are three separate individual persons where "three persons" really means "three" individual persons or do these SDA apply descriptions to manifestations of a single person (i.e. "three" really means "one" person)?


Thanks, in advance, for the information.

Clear

 

[RND]

RND - Frubals to you for your wonderful clarity and agree with your "request for specificity" regarding the question as to "Jewish Law" (in post #2)

Thanks!

Regarding the Trinity, the SDA link says:

The SDA link describes the three members of this trinity separately and begin with God the Father as "the Creator, Source, Sustainer, and Sovereign of all creation." The link describes the Son Jesus thusly : "God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ". And it describes the Holy Spirit as being "active with the Father and the Son in Creation, incarnation, and redemption."

Do the SDA believe these are three separate individual persons where "three persons" really means "three" individual persons or do these SDA apply descriptions to manifestations of a single person (i.e. "three" really means "one" person)?


Thanks, in advance, for the information.

I think anytime anyone gets into a discussion regarding "the Trinity" it can be a little like the sausage making process! In this sense it would be a little harder for me to comment as to the SDA generalities and force me to focus on my own individual beliefs.

I believe that the Godhead (my preferable term for the "Trinity" because some groups see the trinity as including others beside Jesus Christ, like His mother) as do practically all SDA's consists of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Just as a family may have separate individuals that make up the family so to do I believe that the "God family" is made up of "three" separate individuals.

The official site says this about the "Godhead": "There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation" and then it goes on to list the roles of each, the Father, Son and Holy spirit. One "God" or "God" family made up of three individuals.

Hope that helps!

 

[Arlanbb]

I understand that for the first 65 years of the SDA church did not believe in the TRINITY, James White and Ellen and a lot of the early leaders said it was not true. Can you comment on that?

 

[RND]

I understand that for the first 65 years of the SDA church did not believe in the TRINITY, James White and Ellen and a lot of the early leaders said it was not true. Can you comment on that?

Some members of the original Millerite movement were indeed Arians. My understanding of Miller is that he wasn't one of them. But I wouldn't say during the "first 65 years" the SDA's didn't believe in the Godhead. The church was officially commenced in 1863 and was made up of lots of folks from lots of different belief systems and denominations, so I wouldn't doubt there were some Arians in the mix. As for James and Ellen White's denying that some didn't believe in the "Trinity" I have no knowledge of that. Of course EGW has been accused of being Arian at one point in her life but I see no evidence of that based on the totality of her writings.

Arianism, Adventism and Methodism: The Healing of Trinitarian Teaching and Soteriology</b></font></b></font>

"What then is to be made of Adventism's simultaneous emergence out of both unwitting legalism and a rather strongly held Arian stance? Clear-cut answers are a bit hard to come by in this area of Adventist history, but it does appear that the following factors were the most decisive:
1)The obvious spiritual needs of the church: here both James and Ellen White, later supported by Jones and Waggoner, took the lead. We have no record that they sat up one day and said: "This Arianism business is simply killing our people with legalistic attitudes that are bringing on a terrible spiritual condition in the church!" What seems more apparent is that they sensed the severe dangers inherent in the obviously legalistic trends within the movement, began to study more carefully the causes of the condition and then began to instinctively sense the need for a more Trinitarian undergirding of soteriology.

This basic phenomenon is especially evident in Ellen White. I have simply not found any instances where she self-consciously set out to reflect on the soteriological implications of the full deity of Christ and the personhood of the Holy Spirit. She, however, seemed to be able to draw not only on Scripture, but also on the resources of her Methodist matrix. While she never admitted any direct debt to the Wesleyan/Methodist Tradition for her soteriology, it was clearly her baseline in her ministry from the very beginning. This is especially true of her attempts to keep a balance between the primacy of justification by faith, while at the same time giving great emphasis to sanctification and Holiness of heart and life. It appears that the same might be said for the Trinitarian consciousness raising power of her Wesleyan/Methodist background."

 

[Arlanbb]

Some members of the original Millerite movement were indeed Arians. My understanding of Miller is that he wasn't one of them. But I wouldn't say during the "first 65 years" the SDA's didn't believe in the Godhead. The church was officially commenced in 1863 and was made up of lots of folks from lots of different belief systems and denominations, so I wouldn't doubt there were some Arians in the mix. As for James and Ellen White's denying that some didn't believe in the "Trinity" I have no knowledge of that. Of course EGW has been accused of being Arian at one point in her life but I see no evidence of that based on the totality of her writings.

Arianism, Adventism and Methodism: The Healing of Trinitarian Teaching and Soteriology</b></font></b></font>

"What then is to be made of Adventism's simultaneous emergence out of both unwitting legalism and a rather strongly held Arian stance? Clear-cut answers are a bit hard to come by in this area of Adventist history, but it does appear that the following factors were the most decisive:
1)The obvious spiritual needs of the church: here both James and Ellen White, later supported by Jones and Waggoner, took the lead. We have no record that they sat up one day and said: "This Arianism business is simply killing our people with legalistic attitudes that are bringing on a terrible spiritual condition in the church!" What seems more apparent is that they sensed the severe dangers inherent in the obviously legalistic trends within the movement, began to study more carefully the causes of the condition and then began to instinctively sense the need for a more Trinitarian undergirding of soteriology.

This basic phenomenon is especially evident in Ellen White. I have simply not found any instances where she self-consciously set out to reflect on the soteriological implications of the full deity of Christ and the personhood of the Holy Spirit. She, however, seemed to be able to draw not only on Scripture, but also on the resources of her Methodist matrix. While she never admitted any direct debt to the Wesleyan/Methodist Tradition for her soteriology, it was clearly her baseline in her ministry from the very beginning. This is especially true of her attempts to keep a balance between the primacy of justification by faith, while at the same time giving great emphasis to sanctification and Holiness of heart and life. It appears that the same might be said for the Trinitarian consciousness raising power of her Wesleyan/Methodist background."

You say that the beginning of the SDA church didn't happen till 1863 officailly, that may be true but the adventist movement started from the Miller movement of 1844. I don't know where you get your information on the church and Godhead but may I direct you to the following statement from the Review of June 1, 1869:
A. L. White said: This article written by R. F. Cottrell....set forth well the attitude of the pieneers and believers on the question of the trinity.
POSITION OF THE SDA PIONEERS ON "THE TRINITY"
"My reason for not adopting and defending it, are 1. Its name is unscriptural-the Trinity, or the triune God, is unknown to the Bible....

When was the first time that the Trinity doctrine was first put into the SDA baptismal certifice, it was in the late 1920 or early 1930's. So as I said before it has been at least 65 years that the Adventist church didn't proclaim the trinity doctrine.

I has a great uncle that was converted to adventism back in the 1880's in Nebraska and he moved to Oregon in 1890's and became a calporter for the church. In the early 1950 i stayed a while with him and you know what he use to say to people when he was trying to sell books for the church. " If you go to church on Sunday and believe in the Trinity your going to hell".

Now that's the way to win over people, wouldn't you say.

You say there were "some Arians in the mix" - the following were anti-trinitarian - Joshua Himes, Joseph Bates, James White, Uriah Smith, Stephenson, J. N. Loughbrough, D. M. Canright, J. H. Waggoner, E. J. Waggoner, A. T. Jones, J. N. Anderson, R.F. Cottrell and W. W Prescott and Ellen White never once used the word trinity in her writings. If you read only Ellen's writing before 1890 she is Arian. In 1870 Ellen wrote in SOP vol 1 That God himself was going to ordain Christ so Christ will be equal with God and Lucifer didn't like that.

It sound like there is alot about early Adventism you don't really understand. If the Trinity was un-scriptural then in 1869, how did it become scriptural now?? Please explain that to me???

 

[linwood]

Those are further delineated into ceremonial, health, civil and moral laws so it can get kinda confusing sometimes!

Could you tell me what standard is used to form these delineations?