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Seuss contra Trump

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Sure, people can say anything they like.

That does not mean that they have any clue, though. The comparison with Hitler is not only apt, it actually grows more sensible each and every day.
You actually believe that Trump is becoming Hitler?
How about providing some real parallels...something
more substantial than the usual claims that he uses
propaganda, or that there was a financial crisis before
his rise to the presidency.

Only if.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Sure, people can say anything they like.

That does not mean that they have any clue, though. The comparison with Hitler is not only apt, it actually grows more sensible each and every day.


Wake me when Trump burns down Congress...just sayin'.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
If his love for Rocket Man results in peaceful Koreas, than let his love shine.
But this histrionic cry of "Hitler!" at every mention of Trump is worse than childish.
It's disgraceful.
Just to set the record straight, the first person in this thread to mention Hitler was you. You are the one crying histrionically about Hitler.

Somebody criticized Trump and you jumped in crying “how dare you compare Trump to Hitler” eventhough no one did. It is getting tired.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Hitler was famous for knowing how to use the propaganda technique of the "Big Lie" to fool people. As he himself explained, the technique was to create a lie so impossibly outrageous that people would judge it just had to be true, because they simply would not be able to imagine how anyone could fabricate such a monster.
Support for this claim about Trump using this tool?
Now, suppose you noticed some contemporary politician was using the Big Lie technique. Further suppose you told people, "He's using the Big Lie technique that Hitler described in his biography".
Logically speaking, would that necessarily mean you were saying the politician was "just like Hitler", or "Just as bad as Hitler"?
I don't see how any honest person can answer "yes" to that question, unless they are merely confused.
It seems to me the OP is stating no more than this: That Trump's treatment of immigrant children is similar to, or the same as, Hitler's treatment of immigrant children in his own day and age. I just can't find anywhere the OP says, "Trump is Hitler", or anything along those lines.
That's an artful hypothetical, but this isn't about whether Hitler & Trump are identical.
The OP is one brick in a large wall of propagandistic effort to paint Trump as Hitler.
While it could be defended as just a loose association between his recent border
policy, & Hitler's inhumanity, this would be to ignore the OP's role in the continuing
larger campaign to claim that Trump is leading us down the road to a Hitlerian future.
k
I suppose someone might say, "Well, the OP could be taken to mean 'Trump is Hitler', even if it cannot be proven that it does indeed mean that." But I disagree that it could be taken that way without jumping to that conclusion.

There is a name for thinking the worse of someone, rather than giving folks the benefit of the doubt: "Bad faith".

Bad faith is always intellectually dishonest.
To portray Trump as the next Hitler in a fashion which offers plausible deniability
when challenged is weak & deceptive. Basing the claim on parallels as broad as
populism, using propaganda, lying, & being mean to children is so broad it could
be applied to a great many politicians.

Proffering histrionics as cogent analysis is intellectually dishonest.
Instead of overly general comparisons, how about some salient ones?
This would be a good summary of Hitler's ascension from which to
show a parallel path.....
Adolf Hitler's rise to power - Wikipedia
I'd look for....
- Major agendas in common.
- Fundamental ideological similarities.
- Suspension of civil liberties & rights.
- Seizing total power for the executive branch.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Just to set the record straight, the first person in this thread to mention Hitler was you. You are the one crying histrionically about Hitler.
Take a look at the cartoon in the OP.
Do you think "Adolph" refers to someone other than Hitler?
So let's have less crying about my objection, & more careful reading, eh.
 
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idav

Being
Premium Member
How would you say Trump is steering Americastan towards fascism?
His aversion to freedom of press and use of tabloids, his economic sanctions, his views on nationalism and UN, his views on criminalization and profiling, his agreements with dictator fascists around the world, his opposition to liberal and libertarian ideals, his work towards making an oligarchy stronger while simultaneously stripping the poor of benefits and on and on.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
His aversion to freedom of press and use of tabloids, his economic sanctions, his views on nationalism and UN, his views on criminalization and profiling, his agreements with dictator fascists around the world, his opposition to liberal and libertarian ideals, his work towards making an oligarchy stronger while simultaneously stripping the poor of benefits and on and on.
Tackling things in order......
May I assume that you mean hostility, rather than "aversion"?
I ask because Trump is an avid user of all media.
This hostility is mutual. It reminds me of Nixon's war with them.
But a rancorous relationship doesn't suggest a parallel with Hitler.
What steps do you think Trump has taken to limit press freedom.

Trump is hardly alone in using economic sanctions. This is a
standard technique of modern Americastanian politics.
Looking at Iran, he's only proposing a return to prior policy.
If you refer to tariffs, Americastan has waxed & waned on
using them before. This is nothing new.
Did Hitler even use economic sanctions or tariffs?
He was more into Blitzkriege.

Consorting with dictators around the world is typical of presidents.
Moreover, it's even useful. What if Reagan had never met with
Gorbachev? We could've seen an uninterrupted cold war.
So I reject criticism that he's become cozy with Kim Jong Un.
Instead of meeting with him to form a modern incarnation of the Axis
Powers, I see an attempt to reconcile the two Koreas.
That is about as unHitlerian as one can be.

I agree that Trump is no liberal or libertarian.
But then, few presidents lean in either direction.
So this is hardly a damning parallel with Hitler.

Is "stripping the poor of benefits" a Hitlerian feature?
And is this really his agenda, or is it just a criticism
due to removing the IRS penalties for not buying
health insurance?

Btw, the frubal wasn't for agreement, but rather for your
straightforward & elaborated addressing of the issues.
(Sometimes others misread my frubular intent.)
 
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Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
The political cartoon in the OP is on display at the US Holocaust Museum. It's there to record but also to teach. It's fascinating to watch as an increasingly angry Basket of Deplorables protests too much, perhaps because even they recognize that the moral equivalency is not that between Trump and Hitler, but between tribalism and tribalism and between complicity and complicity.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The political cartoon in the OP is on display at the US Holocaust Museum. It's there to record but also to teach. It's fascinating to watch as an increasingly angry Basket of Deplorables protests too much, perhaps because even they recognize that the moral equivalency is not that between Trump and Hitler, but between tribalism and tribalism and between complicity and complicity.
I've a better cartoon....
161.jpg


As we see in this thread & the larger political discussion,
a great many are drawing parallels between Trump & Hitler.
And they claim it's increasing.
They say it's wise to watch out for Trump becoming more Hitlerian.
They claim "history".
But they don't offer the beef.
In reality, it's not analysis, discussion or debate...just an empty meme.

And you repeatedly link Hitler with us "deplorables" (ie, all Trump voters).
Rubbish.
 
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sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The left is fond of calling Trump a "fascist", but this barb is as vapid
as Hillary's use of "deplorables", ie, just poo flinging.
How would you say Trump is steering Americastan towards fascism?
Trump is an outcome of a rising fascist oriented thought among the Americans in general. They are not tolerant of other ethnic groups, want to stop people from coming to America, believe that the new Western Non-European groups are the reason of America's fall from national glory. They are also the hostile to educated groups and institutions and believe that they and the Media are colluding in a world spanning attempt to keep ordinary folks down and out. Global Warming, Free Trade, UN and governments and international institutions run by "them".

Trump, typical of a demagogic tyrant, feeds these fears, tries constantly to delegitmize every institution and demonize other pillars of power (media, justice dept, House and Senate, courts, NATO, UN, etc. etc. ) and cultivates a personality cult focused only on him. Every achievement is because of him and him alone, every failure is because of "them", and in any case most failures are faked facts by "them". He, like a tyrant, has filled his advisors with family members and millitary hawks.

He is a fascist, and this movement is fascism. Simple, clear, obvious.His next step will be to delegitimize the House and the Senate. Since both are highly unpopular that will not be difficult. If Democrats win and then try to impeach him, that will be the way he can do it. If he is a capable fascist, he may resign before impeachment happens and then run a proxy for Presidential election playing the victim and lone crusader card. His victory will damage the two Houses, and using that he will increase his defacto power. Over time his goal will be to groom sycophants who answer to him as representatives both in House and the Senate.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Trump is an outcome of a rising fascist oriented thought among the Americans in general. They are not tolerant of other ethnic groups, want to stop people from coming to America, believe that the new Western Non-European groups are the reason of America's fall from national glory. They are also the hostile to educated groups and institutions and believe that they and the Media are colluding in a world spanning attempt to keep ordinary folks down and out. Global Warming, Free Trade, UN and governments and international institutions run by "them".

Trump, typical of a demagogic tyrant, feeds these fears, tries constantly to delegitmize every institution and demonize other pillars of power (media, justice dept, House and Senate, courts, NATO, UN, etc. etc. ) and cultivates a personality cult focused only on him. Every achievement is because of him and him alone, every failure is because of "them", and in any case most failures are faked facts by "them". He, like a tyrant, has filled his advisors with family members and millitary hawks.

He is a fascist, and this movement is fascism. Simple, clear, obvious.
I understand that Trump has autocratic tendencies & many other faults.
But this does not a Hitler make.
What do you see in legislation signed, in administrative rules issued/revoked,
in policies enforced which would send us down the path of Nazi Germany?

One could make a better case that Bill Clinton was a Nazi.
- He favored expanding warrantless searches.
- He favored further curbing the right to a jury trial (Petty Offense Doctrine).
- His 3 strikes law greatly increased incarceration.
- He had 2 people jailed for insulting him (Mr & Mrs Mendoza).
- He committed & suborned perjury with impunity.
- He opposed gay marriage, & implemented don't-ask-don't-tell.
- He demonized opposition by claiming a "vast right wing conspiracy".
But should I compare Bill to Hitler, or claim he was a nascent Hitler?
Of course not.
 
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