Selflessness

[SalixIncendium]

What does your path teach about selflessness?

Do you have a duty to help others? If you answer yes to this, do you have a duty to help those who do not do their best to help themselves?

If you do have a duty to help others, where do you draw the line with regard to helping others at the expense of your own well-being, i.e. finance, time involved, mental drain, etc.?

Do you agree with the teachings of your path on this topic? Why or why not?

 

[Sunstone]

To me, genuine selflessness is a relatively rare phenomenon that, in its purest form, occurs only during a certain, specific kind of mystical experience. Namely, the experience of an abrupt end to subject/object perception while some form of experiencing continues. By definition, that is selfless, for in such a state "subject/object perception" -- which is the core characteristic of the psychological self -- has ceased to exist, at least temporarily.

 

[BSM1]

What does your path teach about selflessness?

Do you have a duty to help others? If you answer yes to this, do you have a duty to help those who do not do their best to help themselves?

If you do have a duty to help others, where do you draw the line with regard to helping others at the expense of your own well-being, i.e. finance, time involved, mental drain, etc.?

Do you agree with the teachings of your path on this topic? Why or why not?

Wouldn't the idea that you have a "duty" to any path completely negate the state of selflessness.

 

[Sunstone]

What does your path teach about selflessness?

See post #2

Do you have a duty to help others?

I do not find it reasonable to require people to selflessly help others because that would be tantamount to requiring them to first -- before anything else -- have a mystical experience on demand so as to even be able to genuinely act selflessly.

As for a duty to help others, I think that it is often advantageous to us to help others, and that we are sometimes obligated to help others -- or at least all but obligated.

If you answer yes to this, do you have a duty to help those who do not do their best to help themselves?

I don't think we have a duty per se, but I am also a soft determinist who believes that others who are not doing the best to help themselves probably cannot do better at that moment than they are doing. So I see no moral nor rational grounds to say, "Well, he or she is not doing their best to help themselves, so on that basis I will not help them myself" I think such reasoning is most likely grounded in the misguided notion that we have perfect free will -- but that's because I only believe in a very limited concept of "free will".

If you do have a duty to help others, where do you draw the line with regard to helping others at the expense of your own well-being, i.e. finance, time involved, mental drain, etc.?

That should be up to you in most circumstances. But I do believe that the people, if and when truly represented by their government, have a right to compel people through taxation to help other members of the society if done for the general welfare or the greater good.

 

[Audie]

What does your path teach about selflessness?

Do you have a duty to help others? If you answer yes to this, do you have a duty to help those who do not do their best to help themselves?

If you do have a duty to help others, where do you draw the line with regard to helping others at the expense of your own well-being, i.e. finance, time involved, mental drain, etc.?

Do you agree with the teachings of your path on this topic? Why or why not?

Path?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Wouldn't the idea that you have a "duty" to any path completely negate the state of selflessness.

Path?

I wasn't speaking specifically to duty to a path, though in my opinion, we all walk a path in life, whether it is religious, spiritual, or secular.

That said, what are your thoughts on any personal obligation to help others?

 

[Mock Turtle]

What does your path teach about selflessness?

Do you have a duty to help others? If you answer yes to this, do you have a duty to help those who do not do their best to help themselves?

If you do have a duty to help others, where do you draw the line with regard to helping others at the expense of your own well-being, i.e. finance, time involved, mental drain, etc.?

Do you agree with the teachings of your path on this topic? Why or why not?

My path was diverted. Few seemed to bother. Basically did the rest myself, and some luck, to return where I should be. No religious beliefs involved - thank God.

 

[Audie]

I wasn't speaking specifically to duty to a path, though in my opinion, we all walk a path in life, whether it is religious, spiritual, or secular.

That said, what are your thoughts on any personal obligation to help others?

As a cultural thing, I have a profound obligation to everyone in my family.
In the case of strangers, not so much.

What is a "path"?

 

[SalixIncendium]

What is a "path"?

I am defining 'path' as the way of personal ethics and morals you choose to live by, be it based on religious or spiritual values, or on personal values you've prescribed for yourself.

 

[Audie]

I am defining 'path' as the way of personal ethics and morals you choose to live by, be it based on religious or spiritual values, or on personal values you've prescribed for yourself.

Ah, I see. I suppose it is a choice in some ways, but I dont think of it as a choice.

I was raised a certain way, and internalized it.

When I think about it, I do not see anything to change.

 

[metis]

What does your path teach about selflessness?

It's to a very large extent a must-do.

Do you have a duty to help others?

Yes.

If you answer yes to this, do you have a duty to help those who do not do their best to help themselves?

Yes, but that help may at times be just giving advice.

If you do have a duty to help others, where do you draw the line with regard to helping others at the expense of your own well-being, i.e. finance, time involved, mental drain, etc.?

Impossible to say because no two situations are likely to be the same.

Do you agree with the teachings of your path on this topic? Why or why not?

Yes, because we live in societies whereas each of us are dependent on others.

 

[sun rise]

I find this paradox illuminating and answers the OP that complete selflessness is the experience of the Self:

We must lose ourselves in order to find ourselves; thus loss itself is gain.

We must die to self to live in God: thus death means Life.- Meher Baba

 

[SalixIncendium]

I find this paradox illuminating and answers the OP that complete selflessness is the experience of the Self:

We must lose ourselves in order to find ourselves; thus loss itself is gain.

We must die to self to live in God: thus death means Life.- Meher Baba

Interesting.

Can you expand on this with your own interpretation and how it relates to the OP?

 

[sun rise]

Interesting.

Can you expand on this with your own interpretation and how it relates to the OP?

I was speaking to the first question - teaching about selflessness:

What does your path teach about selflessness?

Do you have a duty to help others? If you answer yes to this, do you have a duty to help those who do not do their best to help themselves?

My answer to the second point is partly poetic: the sun shines on the just and the unjust. I need to be ready to offer a hand to others no matter what my opinion of them might be - I could easily be wrong. And who am I to judge whether someone is doing their best or not? I have enough trouble with working toward doing my own best in various situations.

But in practical terms, I should not be an "enabler" of negative behavior. I won't give cash to beggars because they might use it to get drunk, for example. But I volunteer at a group which hands out clothing and food to anyone who says that they need it without judging them.

But further, the word 'help' can for some imply that I, as a superior person with my act together, condescend to offer something to my inferiors. That to me is the opposite of selflessness.

The best kind of help is spontaneous where there is no thought of self. Instead there's an automatic response to someone in need. This is selflessness in action.

 

[BSM1]

I wasn't speaking specifically to duty to a path, though in my opinion, we all walk a path in life, whether it is religious, spiritual, or secular.

That said, what are your thoughts on any personal obligation to help others?

No obligation whatsoever. This is simply another chain that people unnecessarily put on their own selflessness and self actualization. Having said that, it doesn't mean that I don't choose to help people every chance I get, but it is a conscious choice and not an obligation or duty.