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Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Tmac, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. Tmac

    Tmac Active Member

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    At present we give the self properties, length, width and weight because we identify with what we see as our body. It as been proven at "X" magnification that the lines that allow for these properties begin to blur, to the point of non-existence. An illusion does not mean that it doesn't exist but that it isn't what it appears to be. We are spirit/space/whatever and matter at the same time. If you were born and the first visual awareness of yourself was at a magnification that didn't allow for the properties of length, width and weight how would you see yourself?
     
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  2. bobhikes

    bobhikes infinitologist
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    I don't see myself as length, width or height and never have that is just a physical appearance and while I try to maintain and am attracted to physical appearance, it is the my self and the self of others that I value and have always valued. So if I was born blind, I gather that I would still be the same.
     
  3. Tmac

    Tmac Active Member

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    I have no idea what you are trying to say here, of course you are the same but how do you see yourself, what's there to value?
     
  4. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    I don't believe many people see themselves as a body. Most ordinary folks will be dualistic. Even materialists usually see themselves as a consciousness that is produced by and located in the activities of the brain.
     
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  5. Tmac

    Tmac Active Member

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    You've proven that you identify with the body.

    Most of life revolves around the body and its comforts.
     
  6. atanu

    atanu Member
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    Senses being what they are, sensing the body as self is the first natural thing to happen. Only when the senses are introverted that one begins to sense the greater dimensions of the self.

    According to Vedanta, self is encased within five sheaths or bodies. More can be read here:

    Kosha - Wikipedia

    Best.
     
    #6 atanu, Jan 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
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  7. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    The self as we tend to understand it develops by age 4. It's a something we arrive at therfore neurological.
     
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  8. Tmac

    Tmac Active Member

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    You haven't answered the question, maybe its too hard to visualize, the question is if the first visual image one see' of them selves is the same as if they saw themselves at a magnification that blurs the lines that allow dimensions, one wouldn't have the same sense of self as someone whose first visual image of themselves was at the normal magnification
     
  9. Tmac

    Tmac Active Member

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    Thank you but you haven't answered the question either.

    And on a side note the sense of self that you are alluding to doesn't just pop up full blown at the age of 4, its been coming together from day one.
     
  10. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    No I don't.
     
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  11. atanu

    atanu Member
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    I could understand your question and could visualise the implications. Blurring you mentioned will occur only wrt to what we consider normal view. But if a particular magnification was given to us that would become the default.

    So, we will always likely take the presentation of the senses as the reality-truth.
     
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  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Active Member
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    I am not sure what you are asking, but here is what I think the self is....

    I believe that our self is the soul, not the physical body...

    We experience the soul every day because we are a soul. The soul expresses itself through the physical body, but our body is just a vehicle that carries that soul around while we are alive on earth. Thus the soul is our self, our true reality, and the body is just the outer shell.

    The nature of the soul is a mystery no human mind will ever unravel.

    “Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. If it be faithful to God, it will reflect His light, and will, eventually, return unto Him. If it fail, however, in its allegiance to its Creator, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will, in the end, sink in their depths...” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 158-159

    We cannot know the nature of the soul but we can know the function of the soul.

    The soul cannot be perceived in the material world except as it is expressed in outward signs and works. The human body is visible, the soul is invisible. Nevertheless, it is the soul that directs human faculties. As outer circumstances are communicated to the soul by the eyes, ears, and brain, the soul communicates its desires through the brain to the physical body, which thereby expresses itself.

    The soul comes into being at the moment of conception and it animates the human body. The body needs a soul or it cannot live, but the soul does not need a body, so it continues to exist after the body dies. The body is destructible and temporary so eventually it dies; the soul is indestructible and eternal so it lives forever in the spiritual world.

    The soul is the sum total of the personality so it is the person himself; the physical body is pure matter with no real identity. The person, after he dies and leaves his physical body behind remains the same person, and he goes to the spiritual world where he continues the life he conducted in the physical world. The soul takes on some kind of a spiritual form made up of heavenly elements that exist in the spiritual world. We cannot possibly know what that world is like, which is one reason what no religious scriptures have ever described it. It is a Mystery of God.
     
  13. Tmac

    Tmac Active Member

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    Again, I don't think you do; its is the "normal" view that is in question; because you and I have seen what we have come to believe to be our body, it is difficult to envision what we would have if at all considered our body if our first visual impression of us was at a magnification where the lines that allow for distinction can't be seen, it would be like seeing yourself at the moment of the big bang.
    I appreciate your effort but it doesn't even come lose to answering my question, the image of which I'm talking about predates all this complexity.
     
  14. Srivijaya

    Srivijaya Member

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    What exactly do you mean by 'self'?
     
  15. Tmac

    Tmac Active Member

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    For the purpose of this thread; The self is the me, I use it to interact with existence (which in its self could or could not be my creation, as well).
     
  16. Srivijaya

    Srivijaya Member

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    What makes you think that existence might be your creation?
     
  17. Tmac

    Tmac Active Member

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    Are you really curious or are you just challenging me, could you give my though the same respect as if it was yours?
     
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  18. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    Nothing will change. Since congenitally blind people don't show any speciality regarding their view of self.
     
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  19. Srivijaya

    Srivijaya Member

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    If I wasn't curious, I wouldn't ask.
     
  20. atanu

    atanu Member
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    Now, I think you are superposing illusion over illusion.
     
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