Seeking Spiritual Truth

[angellous_evangellous]

Assuming that spiritual "truth" exists somewhere, how do you know that you've found it?

I suspect that most of us are simply following that which makes us feel warm and fuzzy. Some of us are, of course, more zealous, (metaphorically or literally) yelling, "I AM WARM AND FUZZY." Believe the way I do, and you'll feel warm and fuzzy too.

Just wondering....

Because all that we can conclude scientifically or rationally is that human beings have no metaphysical qualities, and science cannot make metaphysical conclusions. That is, we do not logically know that there is a God (any metaphyiscal being) or that humans could communicate with God (eg, have a metaphysical quality) or know God's truths. Therefore, many people are reduced to saying "I know the truth in my heart," or a variant saying along the same lines, yet the same person can reject what makes another person feel the same way. Thus, religious competition is more or less people comparing warm and fuzzy feelings.

Nothin wrong with feeling warm and fuzzy.

 

[dawny0826]

I can relate to feeling all warm and fuzzy. That's a good description of how I feel when I receive spirtual confirmation on something.

Yes, I think in many ways, religious competition, as you put it is more or less people comparing warm and fuzzy feelings.

Nothing at all wrong with feeling warm and fuzzy.

 

[Abram]

Warm and fuzzy at times, but God is about discipline and giving up lust and other desires to become closer to him. The way you know God exists is by letting him run your life and to keep a journal so the devil doesn't cloud your memories of doubt. Things in my life, prayers that have been answered and the fact that the Bible was written over 1500 years by 40 people that didn't know each other. Then it predicted the rise and death of Jesus in such detail that you have to try not to believe. That is not coincidence, impossible, that is divine power.

Warm and fuzzy's are only a bonus to God, but it is not just comparing them.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

Assuming that spiritual "truth" exists somewhere, how do you know that you've found it?

I suspect that most of us are simply following that which makes us feel warm and fuzzy.

It's called "certitude," and one kas this (and knows this) largely as a result of prayer, reading, study, investigation, and observation, plus a touch of common sense!

To which, after one has made a correct choice about religion, can be added a considerable weight of additional conviction gained as a result of experience over the decades.

And as to true religion's being "warm and fuzzy," it may well be at times, but that's not something anyone should expect--and is ESPECIALLY not a proper reason for choosing a religion! The simple reason for this is that true religion is quite often the OPPOSITE of warm and fuzzy, presenting one (as it often does) with severe tests and challenges, sometimes up to and including losing one's life as the price of being faithful to one's religious belief.

Would that religion were always warm and fuzzy, but like it or not, that's not how things tend to operate in the real world, wonderful as it may sometimes be! . . .

Personally, I would say there are three primary reasons why we have such tests and difficulties:

- Some are indeed God testing us. As multiple scriptures have pointed out, "Do men think when they say 'we believe,' they shall be let alone and not put to proof?!"

- Some are simply randomm events, such as tornados and tsunamis.

- But many are our own doing and our own fault: self-imposed, in fact!

But as the Quakers say, "Nothing good comes easily!" . . .

Peace,

Bruce

Peace,

Bruce

 

[BucephalusBB]

Ehr, warm chocolatemilk makes me warm and fuzzy on the inside.. (?)

I think if it does exist, it must be a feeling you haven't had before..

 

[James the Persian]

I am certain that Orthodoxy is Truth in my heart (though I don't doubt that others feel as certain about other faiths), but it certainly doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy. It is far too difficult a thing to truly live the Orthodox faith (and that's what you do, live it, it's not a Sunday thing) to ever feel warm and fuzzy. I actually find warm and fuzzy a bit suspicious. It seems like complacency to me and in my view any faith that allows its believers to become complacent rather than requiring them to work on themselves is not one worth following. I'm less interested that people be made to feel happy about who they are now than I am that they be shown how to (and given an incentive to actually do it) make themselves into a better person, even if that requires a certain amount of initial (or even continuing) discomfort. Anyone can rest on their laurels and feel warm about themselves, actually doing something about your flaws and failings is harder.

James

 

[BucephalusBB]

I am certain that Orthodoxy is Truth in my heart (though I don't doubt that others feel as certain about other faiths), but it certainly doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy. It is far too difficult a thing to truly live the Orthodox faith (and that's what you do, live it, it's not a Sunday thing) to ever feel warm and fuzzy. I actually find warm and fuzzy a bit suspicious. It seems like complacency to me and in my view any faith that allows its believers to become complacent rather than requiring them to work on themselves is not one worth following. I'm less interested that people be made to feel happy about who they are now than I am that they be shown how to (and given an incentive to actually do it) make themselves into a better person, even if that requires a certain amount of initial (or even continuing) discomfort. Anyone can rest on their laurels and feel warm about themselves, actually doing something about your flaws and failings is harder.

James

Given the fact that you "need" bad things to happen to feel the good things and visa versa I would think you would feel warm and fuzzy as well. Maybe not during the hot chocolatemilk ( you never have hot chocolatemilk? ), but then when done praying or so.. Wich then would be the spiritual feeling..

btw there is really nothing suspicious about hot chocolatemilk

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Greetings!


It's called "certitude," and one kas this (and knows this) largely as a result of prayer, reading, study, investigation, and observation, plus a touch of common sense!

All that work to be certain of wamth and fuzziness.

To which, after one has made a correct choice about religion, can be added a considerable weight of additional conviction gained as a result of experience over the decades.

Really really certain of wamth and fuzziness.

And as to true religion's being "warm and fuzzy," it may well be at times, but that's not something anyone should expect--and is ESPECIALLY not a proper reason for choosing a religion! The simple reason for this is that true religion is quite often the OPPOSITE of warm and fuzzy, presenting one (as it often does) with severe tests and challenges, sometimes up to and including losing one's life as the price of being faithful to one's religious belief.

The cost of feeling warm and fuzzy.

Would that religion were always warm and fuzzy, but like it or not, that's not how things tend to operate in the real world, wonderful as it may sometimes be! . . .

Even though life happens, one can feel warm and fuzzy.

Personally, I would say there are three primary reasons why we have such tests and difficulties:

- Some are indeed God testing us. As multiple scriptures have pointed out, "Do men think when they say 'we believe,' they shall be let alone and not put to proof?!"

- Some are simply randomm events, such as tornados and tsunamis.

- But many are our own doing and our own fault: self-imposed, in fact!

But as the Quakers say, "Nothing good comes easily!" . . .

Peace,

Bruce

If we are not w/f, then it is our own fault.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I am certain that Orthodoxy is Truth in my heart (though I don't doubt that others feel as certain about other faiths), but it certainly doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy. It is far too difficult a thing to truly live the Orthodox faith (and that's what you do, live it, it's not a Sunday thing) to ever feel warm and fuzzy. I actually find warm and fuzzy a bit suspicious. It seems like complacency to me and in my view any faith that allows its believers to become complacent rather than requiring them to work on themselves is not one worth following. I'm less interested that people be made to feel happy about who they are now than I am that they be shown how to (and given an incentive to actually do it) make themselves into a better person, even if that requires a certain amount of initial (or even continuing) discomfort. Anyone can rest on their laurels and feel warm about themselves, actually doing something about your flaws and failings is harder.

James

You never have a sense of fulfillment and spiritual exuberence from taking the sacraments or living the life of discipleship?

And if you do feel exhilirated by fulfilling the command of Christ, are you suspicious?

This seems rather odd.

 

[James the Persian]

You never have a sense of fulfillment and spiritual exuberence from taking the sacraments or living the life of discipleship?

And if you do feel exhilirated by fulfilling the command of Christ, are you suspicious?

This seems rather odd.

Fulfilled, yes, the rest, no and certainly not 'warm and fuzzy'. Maybe you mean something else by that, but it makes me think of complacent happiness. I try never to feel like that. Not for nothing is the most frequently said prayer by many Orthodox, 'Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me the sinner'. Complacency is not an option for us.

James

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

JTP if not complacent happiness then is some other kind of happiness acceptable?

Also, you say "I'm less interested that people be made to feel happy about who they are now than I am that they be shown how to (and given an incentive to actually do it) make themselves into a better person".

Would not making themselves a better person be a way to greater happiness? Is this what you mean by fulfillment?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Fulfilled, yes, the rest, no and certainly not 'warm and fuzzy'. Maybe you mean something else by that, but it makes me think of complacent happiness. I try never to feel like that. Not for nothing is the most frequently said prayer by many Orthodox, 'Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me the sinner'. Complacency is not an option for us.

James

Fulfilled = warm and fuzzy sans complacency.

 

[James the Persian]

JTP if not complacent happiness then is some other kind of happiness acceptable?

Also, you say "I'm less interested that people be made to feel happy about who they are now than I am that they be shown how to (and given an incentive to actually do it) make themselves into a better person".

Would not making themselves a better person be a way to greater happiness? Is this what you mean by fulfillment?

To the former, yes. To the latter, it depends. Making yourself a better person (and bear in mind that I am talking from within the context of my own faith here) might lead to happiness but it might just as easily lead to martyrdom - it certainly has for many. There is a certain contentment or fulfilment when you succeed in living the faith but this is always tempered by the realisation that we are constantly falling. Orthodoxy is not a comfortable religion, it is hard. You only need to look at the lives of great saints to see that. They may be (were) far better Christians than I am and yet they could still consider themselves to be the worst sinners on earth. One when dying said he needed time to repent at which those around him asked what he could possibly need to repent of, seeing as he lived such a holy life. His response was that he truly didn't know if he had even begun to repent. That is the sort of feeling you get when you truly try to follow my faith. Nobody converts because it makes them feel 'warm and fuzzy', but rather because they see it as Truth. Our faith is an ascetic, not a comfortable, faith.

James

 

[Steve]

science cannot make metaphysical conclusions.

I disagree, science can show us that nature alone cannot have created somthing. We can detect design etc. If i find a building i know there was a builder. If i find a painting i know there was a painter. I look around at all of creation and i know there is a creator.

That is, we do not logically know that there is a God (any metaphyiscal being) or that humans could communicate with God (eg, have a metaphysical quality) or know God's truths.

Again as i mentioned befor i think we can know logically, and as a Christian i believe Romans 1:20 makes this clear too.

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

​

Do you disagree with this verse?

Therefore, many people are reduced to saying "I know the truth in my heart," or a variant saying along the same lines, yet the same person can reject what makes another person feel the same way. Thus, religious competition is more or less people comparing warm and fuzzy feelings.

People are reduced to these feelings only when they ignore all of creation as evidence for a Creator.

 

[JonM]

I have come to recognize a particular shiver, not particularly pleasant or unpleasant, but unmistakably profound, that I feel when I access some little piece of spiritual knowledge. Whether I like or dislike the experience, it's always an enhancement, and it gives me a glimpse of what life closer to God would be like: beautiful and yet terrifying. Wonderful either way.

 

[ashai]

Ushta All

May I just say that warm and fuzzy is utterly inadequate to express the awesomeness of perceiving the presence and All Goodness of the Most Wise and Superior Being and communing with Her/Him

My Agnostic, Atheist and Monistic Materialist friends, argue that there is no evidence for the existence of a Creator, while they are right as far as physical proof, they forget that the Most Wise is hardly physical and can never be proven according to physical standards. I do not want to get in a soap box here, so I will just add that they define material and physical as to exclude what is obviously non-material.

in any case, returning to my point and simply put, they do not know what they are missing To a theist that has developed his spirituality and ability to commune with the Deity, there is no need for proof. Indeed, in the Good Religion, for example, there is never a question about the existence of the Most Wise, it is self evident in Her/His creation. You want to see 'God' open your eyes for S/He is immanent in all you see as Atar, meaning, fire. (energy).

Having said that, in the physical and limiting myself (against my inner knowledge and certainty) to it, I hold a belief in 'God' by conviction, in the same way that, Atheists hold their belief ( and it is a belief, because things that are not subject to absolute physical proof have to be held on evidence, and or, belief) by convicyion and Materialistic Monists hold theirs , by conviction as well.

In other word,s we can agree to disagree! Although, in the age of Quantum Physics and String Theory, where such thing as:
1. An invisible aspect of reality
2. A thing being in two or more places at the same time
3. Everything as probable rather than determinable
4. A reality manifested by the choice of aware observer/observers

and many more such things, have been proven I would advise my Agnostic, Atheistic and Materialistic Monist friends to keep an open mind

Ushta Ve
Ashai

 

[Cerrax]

I chose to be Madriist partly because of the warm and fuzzy feeling, but also because all my fears and doubts were calmed through it. Every question had an answer that made sense and really connected me to something greater.

 

[ChrisP]

I'm not sure one truth exists. There is certainly one source, even atheists believe this (well most of the scientific type ones), and this is the goal for most unrevealed religions. Attuning with the source which still flows through all.