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Seeing God, Knowing God, Rev 11:15

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    who are the pure in heart, matthew 5:18, that have seen god, realized god? who are they that have grasped the kingdom? who are they that have realized thy kingdom come in earth and heaven?





     
  2. Amanaki

    Amanaki Veteran Member

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    In my understanding that is those who reach spiritual enlightenment and can see truth. Those who actually can enter heaven because the reached the wisdom level needed to enter heaven.
     
  3. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    Psalms 19:8 the lord of love bless you


    Matthew 6:22
     
  4. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    IMO, it's a good thing we have the answers to these questions in the scriptures!

    A contrite heart is the good soil of the Word [Psalm 34:18]. We cannot hope to receive riches from God unless we approach Him with a contrite spirit (our own spirit) [Isaiah 57:15]. When we do, God is willing to bless us with His Spirit, the Holy Spirit. This cannot happen, IMO, except through faith in Christ [John16:7]. Once received, a person has entered spiritually into God's kingdom through faith in Christ. To 'know' or 'see' God means, I believe, to have His Spirit, because the Spirit guides a believer into 'all truth' [John 16:13].
     
  5. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    Why didn't Moses or Noah or Abraham or David reach spiritual enlightenment since none of them went to heaven (John 3:13), even though David was his god's begotten son (Psalm 2:6-7)? Or so the story goes.
     
  6. Amanaki

    Amanaki Veteran Member

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    I believe the did reach enlightenment, that said that is only my belief, I can not prove it, I was not there to witness it.
    I can not deny or confirm where they go after they died from human life, I was not there to see it.

    None of your question that has to do about people living 2000-5000 years ago will be possible for me to answer. I can only see what is written in the Bible and give answer to my own understanding of that scripture.
     
  7. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    Doesn't change the fact that John 3:13 clearly says that they never went to heaven, even if they reached enlightenment. Perhaps they went to Nirvana or Valhalla instead. Or perhaps they chose to go to Paradise and romp around in the lake of fire with 72 virgins .
     
  8. Amanaki

    Amanaki Veteran Member

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    Heaven, Paradise is the same in my understanding. But I only understand parts of Christianity, so my knowledge is limited on this subject of OP.
     
  9. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    But did they go to Nirvana or to Valhalla or to Folkvangr or to Hades, given that they never went to heaven?
     
  10. Amanaki

    Amanaki Veteran Member

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    How can I answer that? I do not know.
    I do not know why you think they did not go to heaven.
     
  11. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    Do you have any actual evidence that they went to heaven given that John 3:13 clearly says that they didn't go there? Or don't you believe what the bible actually says?
     
  12. Amanaki

    Amanaki Veteran Member

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    I do not base my understanding by one tiny verse in the Bible, nor is the Bible the scriptures I follow my self, but I have no doubt that for those who reach enlightenment or awakening as it is called do go to heave/paradise of some sort.

    One must understand the whole scripture to understand fully what it says, so quoting a tiny verse is not enough.

    My answer to the OP was from my own understanding of how one can enter heaven.
     
  13. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    Have you ever actually read the bible? Either way, that's your choice if you don't believe what the bible actually says, but it doesn't change the fact that John 3:13 clearly says that Moses & Noah & Abraham etc never went to heaven since they didn't repent and didn't believe in Jesus and didn't tithe to preacher-men selling after-death salvation.
     
  14. Amanaki

    Amanaki Veteran Member

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    For the third time :) yes I have read the Bible. It is some time since I read it from cover to cover, but I have.

    I am not going to say what your understanding of the Bible or this one verse is, it seems like we have different understanding. But that is ok too.
     
  15. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    Perhaps it's time you re-read the bible again and see that John 3:13 clearly says that Moses & Noah & Abraham etc never went to heaven.

    Or are you just trying to point out some of the numerous biblical contradictions and inconsistencies and scientific untruths?
     
  16. Amanaki

    Amanaki Veteran Member

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    Where in that one verse does it say Moses, Noah or Abraham? None of the names was mention, so it must be your own interpretation of what the verse say. Or?
     
  17. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    But it says that "no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven".
    Do you have any evidence that either Moses or Noah or Abraham came down from heaven? Either way the writers of John 3:13 clearly say that only one man had ever been to heaven when they wrote that about 70 years or so after Jesus had been executed for sedition. Or don't you believe what the bible actually says?
     
  18. Amanaki

    Amanaki Veteran Member

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    I don't read that verse and say that the Bible must be right or wrong.
    If I was to go deeper in to what that one verse truly means, I would have to read the verses before and after the 3:13 verse.

    It's no meaning to continue discussion because you only go in circle, back to the same.

    I see the OP different then you.
     
  19. Mitty

    Mitty Active Member

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    Are you familiar with the English language? Either way John 3:13 still says that neither Moses or Noah or Abraham went to heaven unless they came down from heaven.

    And I'm not going around in circles, but you still can't answer my rhetorical question about Moses or Noah or Abraham never going to heaven.
     
    #19 Mitty, Aug 7, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2020
  20. Power Stone

    Power Stone Unknown Member

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