Secret Chief Buys A Book

[Martin]

Are you?! Why?

It's not something I really do these days. These days I refer to "Hindu" texts, like the Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita, Atma Bodha, etc.
I can't remember the last time I actually read a book all the way through.

 

[Secret Chief]

Ch2.

J. Ravel: Is Buddhism a religion or a philosophy?

M. Ricard: The Dalai Lama says "Poor Buddhism! It is rejected by religions as an atheistic philosophy and rejected by philosophers as a religion." M calls Buddhism "A metaphysical tradition, from which a wisdom applicable to every instant and in all circumstances is derived."

J asks about all the hagiography associated with it and M says this has been added over the centuries. The actual recorded teaching of the Buddha are on philosophical or metaphysical subjects - "the nature of being, ignorance, the causes of suffering, the nonexistence of either the self or phenomena as autonomous entities, the law of causality and so forth."

J asks about the "supernatural" aspects such as the reincarnation of a dead teacher in a three year old. M's response is essentially that he takes things such as this on trust and faith in the sincerity of those that declare such occurrences. J points out that this is neither evidence nor proof.

 

[metis]

However, to say phenomena lack solidity seems to imply, or tries to convey, a greater tenuousness to the reality around us than I would agree with. And for me, this type of stance is very anthropocentric.

I can't really can't see that in the context of the teaching and it's implications as it appears you may have taken it too far. Nor do I see such teaching to be anthropocentric as the same basic processes would exist even if no humans existed.

 

[metis]

I think shunyata goes further than this. Not so much an "I" which continually changes, more like just continual change, with the "I" as an incorrect assumption or view.
But I'd agree that the point of shunyata is to challenge our perceptions in a fundamental way.

I certainly don't have a problem with that in general, but we do have to be cautious and not slip into nihilism.

 

[metis]

The Buddha often remained silent so as to not fix a position, since so much is not binary.

And the Buddha basically put the foundation on us to question, observe, and use the FNT and EP to get closer to discernment. One of my favorite approaches along this line is "Whatever is, is", but with the caveat that the "is" is everchanging.

 

[metis]

J. Ravel: Is Buddhism a religion or a philosophy?

To me, the answer to that question is "Yes".

Again, Buddhism is more a process than a series of conclusions. We can even question whether Old Sid actually even existed? Does it even make a difference if he did or didn't?

 

[Secret Chief]

And the Buddha basically put the foundation on us to question, observe, and use the FNT and EP to get closer to discernment.

Yes, his final words were supposedly "Be a light unto yourself." Although they may alternatively have been "I knew that pork was a bit off."

 

[Secret Chief]

We can even question whether Old Sid actually even existed? Does it even make a difference if he did or didn't?

I think the consensus is that Sid was a historical reality, but ultimately it is the teaching that is important. He was I think essential to be the provider of that, although I guess another would have come along eventually and enunciated broadly the same path.

 

[metis]

Yes, his final words were supposedly "Be a light unto yourself." Although they may alternatively have been "I knew that pork was a bit off."

I'm glad I didn't have anything in my mouth or my screen would now be covered.

 

[metis]

He was I think essential to be the provider of that, although I guess another would have come along eventually and enunciated broadly the same path.

I believe you're likely right.

BTW, the one thing I don't want to do is to derail this thread, so I am going to pretty much avoid any kind of debate. I've posted a couple of responses here already, which is even going further than I prefer.

To put it another way, I am so glad you started this journal, so please tell me to bugger-out if I go too far, OK?

 

[Secret Chief]

BTW, the one thing I don't want to do is to derail this thread, so I am going to pretty much avoid any kind of debate. I've posted a couple of responses here already, which is even going further than I prefer.

To put it another way, I am so glad you started this journal, so please tell me to bugger-out if I go too far, OK?

Listen, "Derail" is my middle name. If you want to post a great ginger cake recipe you've found, go ahead. Debate is fine with me, as long as there's no great use of the word "fallacy." Personally I prefer just having conversations. I'll always bring the journal back on topic with a chapter precis. I enjoy your contributions (+ you've read the book twice!) and I don't want to end up talking to myself. Carry on!

 

[metis]

Listen, "Derail" is my middle name. If you want to post a great ginger cake recipe you've found, go ahead. Debate is fine with me, as long as there's no great use of the word "fallacy." Personally I prefer just having conversations. I'll always bring the journal back on topic with a chapter precis. I enjoy your contributions (+ you've read the book twice!) and I don't want to end up talking to myself. Carry on!

Ya, I read the book twice, but that was around 15 years ago, and I'm 76, so need I say more?

 

[Secret Chief]

Ya, I read the book twice, but that was around 15 years ago, and I'm 76, so need I say more?

Ok, I won't be picking your brains then!
I'd forgotten I'd read Happiness and that was about 15 years ago (apparently )

 

[Secret Chief]

Ch 3 is called
The Ghost in the Black Box

...looks like it's about the issue of the mind - body relationship...

 

[metis]

Ok, I won't be picking your brains then!

Oh, I think the vultures are circling and planning to do that.

 

[Secret Chief]

I think I'm going to have to knock this thread on the head. I've read the next chapter and to do it justice I would have to type screeds of text which would be rather an onerous task for me. It's a really interesting book and definitely am glad I got it but I will not be following up here. I'd spend more time typing than reading. See you folks around.

 

[metis]

I think I'm going to have to knock this thread on the head. I've read the next chapter and to do it justice I would have to type screeds of text which would be rather an onerous task for me. It's a really interesting book and definitely am glad I got it but I will not be following up here. I'd spend more time typing than reading. See you folks around.

Glad you're enjoying it.

 

[Martin]

I think I'm going to have to knock this thread on the head. I've read the next chapter and to do it justice I would have to type screeds of text which would be rather an onerous task for me. It's a really interesting book and definitely am glad I got it but I will not be following up here. I'd spend more time typing than reading. See you folks around.

I hope you enjoy the rest of it. Just curious, are you involved in a Buddhist group, or doing your own thing?

 

[Secret Chief]

"Doing my own thing"

In the dim and distant, I went to retreats and weekly services but the distance involved was rather excessive. I didn't see the need in the end; zazen is the essence of the lived practice.

 

[Meow Mix]

If you buy a Secret Chief a book, they're going to want a cookie....