Second Time Switzerland spoke up against Israel action

[greatcalgarian]

Switzerland says Israel has clearly violated international law by imposing collective punishment on Palestinians over the capture of an Israeli soldier.
Switzerland is the "depository" state of the Geneva Conventions.
They prohibit the deliberate targeting of services essential to the civilian population, like water and electricity.
The statement from Switzerland comes amid growing concern among aid agencies at the deteriorating humanitarian situation in Gaza. Neutral Switzerland does not often venture into political controversy. But this statement is likely to cause some irritation in Israel and the United States.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5145654.stm

By the fact that a supposedly neutral nation has chosen to speak against the current Israel action, do you think Israel is overdoing or over reacting to the kidnapping, and resort to confrontation instead of negotiation?

Or do you think that if Israel negotiate for the release of the kidnapped soldier, she will be weaken in future in dealing with Palestinian issue?

Or do you think Israel has no intention of having any peaceful co-existence with Palestinians at all, and this is a good opportunity for them to act tough and close all possible future peace talks?

 

[c0da]

By the fact that a supposedly neutral nation has chosen to speak against the current Israel action, do you think Israel is overdoing or over reacting to the kidnapping, and resort to confrontation instead of negotiation?

Or do you think that if Israel negotiate for the release of the kidnapped soldier, she will be weaken in future in dealing with Palestinian issue?

Or do you think Israel has no intention of having any peaceful co-existence with Palestinians at all, and this is a good opportunity for them to act tough and close all possible future peace talks?

I think Israel is overeacting, but all the Palestinians have to do is release the captured soldier and Israel will leave Gaza.

I think the third option is a load of crap. If anything it is vice-versa.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Or do you think Israel has no intention of having any peaceful co-existence with Palestinians at all, and this is a good opportunity for them to act tough and close all possible future peace talks?

There is zero history to sugggest anything even remotely like this. In fact, it seems far more likely that the question is little more than antisemitic rhetoric. Certainly it is indestinguishable from such rhetoric.

In any event, there exists an easily implemented and blatantly obvious test: release the soldier and stop the Kassam rocket attacts and see if Israel exits Gaza.

 

[kai]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5145654.stm

By the fact that a supposedly neutral nation has chosen to speak against the current Israel action, do you think Israel is overdoing or over reacting to the kidnapping, and resort to confrontation instead of negotiation?

Or do you think that if Israel negotiate for the release of the kidnapped soldier, she will be weaken in future in dealing with Palestinian issue?

Or do you think Israel has no intention of having any peaceful co-existence with Palestinians at all, and this is a good opportunity for them to act tough and close all possible future peace talks?

Hamas has decided its war with Israel is to continue, Hamas is now the government of the Palestinians, that means the Palestinians ar at war with Israel,release the soldier,stop firing rockets into Israel and watch the IDF go home its that simple

 

[Ciscokid]

Thanks for getting involved Switzerland, now go back to making cheese and clocks.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

By the fact that a supposedly neutral nation ...

Parenthetically ...

When we started research for our documentary "Nazi Gold," we knew that the emotionally-charged issue of Holocaust survivors' claims against Swiss banks was triggering a re-examination of Switzerland's relations with Nazi Germany. New accounts of witnesses and survivors, and information from recently declassified documents in the United States and Switzerland, contradicted the previously-accepted historical record. From Switzerland's close trade and banking relations with Berlin, to its controversial and tragic refugee policy, to certain officials' post-war support for Nazis in their escape to South America, wartime Switzerland appears to many observers to have been less than neutral in World War II.

But there is one story we examined -- the forced transports of Italians through Switzerland via the St. Gotthard mountain passage -- which represents a dramatic new allegation about Switzerland's wartime role. ...

[ continued here ]​

Neutrality in the face of genocide is culpability.

 

[Ciscokid]

Right on Jay.

 

[Flappycat]

Or do you think Israel has no intention of having any peaceful co-existence with Palestinians at all, and this is a good opportunity for them to act tough and close all possible future peace talks?

To tell you the truth, I wouldn't be surprised. The Pals haven't done a thing in the history of this conflict to endear themselves to the Israelis. I don't think that Israel is always just in their actions, but the entire history of this dispute shows far more stupidity on the part of the Pals than anything else. The Pals...they allow themselves to be led by people who are considered terrorists, man, terrorists whose explicit agenda is to wipe Israel from existence. This isn't a demonstration of brilliance under the best of circumstances. Yeah, I have my criticisms of Israel. The Pals aren't innocent victims in any light, though.

It remains, however, that no amount of stupidity on their part defeats what are supposedly the core values of humanity. That someone could possibly believe anything else is enough to make me spit in disgust. Apparently, the Israelis have lost their ability to care, which I think is as sad as the plight of the Pals, and I really think it's time for someone to intervene. On behalf of them all. If that's possible without just making things worse.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Apparently, the Israelis have lost their ability to care, ...

That is not at all apparent to me, and I've been there and have extended family living there. Unfortunately, to quote Golda Mier: "We have always said that in our war with the Arabs we had a secret weapon - no alternative." You see, when Islamic terrorists speak of the annihilation of Israel, we believe them. You, who are not being shelled or shredded by terrorists, seem far less concerned. Perhaps it is you who has lost the ability to understand ... or care.

 

[Flappycat]

Golda Mier: "We have always said that in our war with the Arabs we had a secret weapon - no alternative."

This mentality is one of the reasons that horrible things are capable of being done by humans. Perhaps those in Israel need more external perspective; lack thereof or refusal to accept it when it is offered is another reason that horrible things are capable of being done by humans. Oddly, there are two vital firsts here in these last few posts: 1) This would be the first time, at least in a long while, that I have spoken more in favor of Israel on this subject, whereas, before, I have either favored Palestine or derided the conflict as a hillbilly feud. 2) This would be the first time that you have voiced objection to anything that I have said on the subject, in my memory. I have made a dramatic shift in my stance on this subject. That's more likely to hold if I see some evidence that Israel's supporters may have at least the barest concern for those who are caught up in this mess.

The real enemy is not flesh and bone. Flesh and bone can be defeated with a mere thrust of a sword. Israel is not going to begin to win until they cease to play for the other team. I don't think they're doing much for their cause by holding Gaza Strip hostage in retaliation for the Pals holding a single soldier.

 

[greatcalgarian]

Thanks for getting involved Switzerland, now go back to making cheese and clocks.

I thought it was a good idea to see how this forum members feel about the neutrality of Switzerland.

And sure enough, some members have felt reasonably strongly against giving the honor of 'neutrality' to Switzerland and bought out issues of black money, human trading etc.

Guess Bush is right in his famous saying "You are with us or Against US (us can become U.S. )" So there is no neutral nation in this world.

 

[greatcalgarian]

I think Israel is overeacting, but all the Palestinians have to do is release the captured soldier and Israel will leave Gaza.

I think the third option is a load of crap. If anything it is vice-versa.

It is not the entering of Gaza that Switzerland is upset about. It is the indiscriminate destruction of properties and human life that Switzerland is talking about. Israel should use all her intelligent resources to locate the kidnapped soldier, and then execute a plan to rescue the soldier. And if during the action of rescueing the soldier, Palestinian civilians and properties were killed and destroyed, that may be considered as a price (collaterial damage in a war) they pay for kidnapping the soldier, and I believe there will be less international objection to that.

 

[kai]

It is not the entering of Gaza that Switzerland is upset about. It is the indiscriminate destruction of properties and human life that Switzerland is talking about. Israel should use all her intelligent resources to locate the kidnapped soldier, and then execute a plan to rescue the soldier. And if during the action of rescueing the soldier, Palestinian civilians and properties were killed and destroyed, that may be considered as a price (collaterial damage in a war) they pay for kidnapping the soldier, and I believe there will be less international objection to that.

thats a very good point but people hardened to war tend to make more violent decisions than people used to a more peaceful existence.

 

[greatcalgarian]

Canada under the current conservative government is speaking the language of the US, in Chinese we said: 同一个鼻孔出气

Five members abstained from the vote, including Britain, France and Germany.

Even Britain abstained from the vote, the strong supported of US and Israel, what a joke, and Canada voted against.

Canada voted against a United Nations Human Rights Council resolution Thursday that condemns Israel's actions in the Gaza Strip and dispatches a fact-finding team to the region.
The resolution, which passed by a 29-11 vote, condemns Israel's military attacks against Palestinian ministries, power plants and bridges.
The resolution, put forward to the council by the Organization of the Islamic Conference, demands that Israel end its military operations in Gaza.
Israel entered Gaza late last month after Palestinian militants attacked an army post in southern Israel, killing two soldiers and abducting a third.
The army says it will leave Gaza when Cpl. Gilad Shalit, 19, is released.
Terry Cormier, Canada's representative on the 47-member council, said Canada voted against the resolution because it did not provide a balanced perspective on events in Gaza.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/07/06/un-humanrights.html

 

[Saint George]

I’m with Switzerland on this one. Pal civilians and the gaza infrastructure are being mercilessly bombed because a soldier was captured. Excuse me but isn’t there a war going on between these two people? In wars, soldiers get captured and soldiers fight each other. There is a reason why there are soldiers fighting the war. Soldiers are commission by their governments to fight against the enemy whoever that may be. This soldier was fighting for Israel against the pals. He is fair game in time of war. I don’t like this arrangement but that’s how wars work. If a soldier is captured or is killed in the line of duty, you don’t bomb the civilians whose army captured the soldier. The soldier was there to fight and that makes him fair game according to the rules of engagement.

Switzerland is calling attention to the fact that Israel is killing innocent and unarmed civilians. This is nothing more than a massacre of civilians, and Switzerland should be commended for calling attention to such a tragedy.

I’m not taking sides here. Many times in the past, the pals have been responsible for massacring Israeli civilians and that is equally as tragic. But, to reciprocate the action means that you are no better that your enemy when it comes to seeking peace. The fact is that both of these societies are incapable of making peace with each other. They are equally as guilty and they are full of hate. Perhaps that’s why most in this world see these two societies as tragic and hopeless.

I hope that for their sake, the two sides can look beyond their own personal tragedies and seek peace. But, the reality is that war between these two people will most likely continue for generations to come. Sad but true.

 

[kai]

When it comes to the Palestinians and the Israelis, it is usually a tale of two stories.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5151718.stm

 

[almifkhar]

there are more sinister things going on with this israel invades the land that it recently gave back on the premsis of getting ONE solder on the bottom of the heap.

i knew that back in dec. that israel would soon reoccupy gaza. one would have to be a fool not to have noticed the scam (or just not paid attention to past events)

the way i see it this whole operation israel has going on is unnessasary simply because they are infilltrated into all of the enemies (palestine) hammas type organizations and the proof to this is that when they go out on their assiassination campagines of guys they always know right where to find them, so why all of a sudden can't they find their corporal?

seems to me that my first thought on israel surrendering gaza was what i thought it was in the first place, a lie to make themselves look like the good guys. they had no intention on handing over that land and they have proven me right.

switzerland is right because it is totally unnessasary to blow up power plants, universities, houses, etc, and indanger the lives of thousands of people all for one corporal. even the u.s. wouldn't do this and lost vietnam vets who spent 20 years in camps in vietnam, laos prove that.

 

[kai]

there are more sinister things going on with this israel invades the land that it recently gave back on the premsis of getting ONE solder on the bottom of the heap.

i knew that back in dec. that israel would soon reoccupy gaza. one would have to be a fool not to have noticed the scam (or just not paid attention to past events)

the way i see it this whole operation israel has going on is unnessasary simply because they are infilltrated into all of the enemies (palestine) hammas type organizations and the proof to this is that when they go out on their assiassination campagines of guys they always know right where to find them, so why all of a sudden can't they find their corporal?

seems to me that my first thought on israel surrendering gaza was what i thought it was in the first place, a lie to make themselves look like the good guys. they had no intention on handing over that land and they have proven me right.

switzerland is right because it is totally unnessasary to blow up power plants, universities, houses, etc, and indanger the lives of thousands of people all for one corporal. even the u.s. wouldn't do this and lost vietnam vets who spent 20 years in camps in vietnam, laos prove that.

where did you get the idea that it was just to free the soldier, the cease fire ended with Hamas on june 20th,
the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, announced he had set July 26 for an unprecedented Palestinian referendum on the principles of a unified political platform agreed upon by Palestinian prisoners, which calls for a Palestinian state in pre-1967 boundaries alongside Israel.
Spokesmen for the ruling Hamas movement said they rejected the referendum decree and are studying their options, raising the prospect of further confrontation. Hamas has been firing rockets into Isael since the day they left Gaza, Hamas is the palestinian government and they are at war with Israel.

 

[almifkhar]

i just read some australlian article that said that hammas finally agreed to a two state option and would reconize the existance of israel, that's where i got that idea. let me go back and see what i can dig up on your point and perhaps something else. for if i am wrong than i will humble myself to you with an apology. i am going to pm you for a question alright

 

[kai]

i just read some australlian article that said that hammas finally agreed to a two state option and would reconize the existance of israel, that's where i got that idea. let me go back and see what i can dig up on your point and perhaps something else. for if i am wrong than i will humble myself to you with an apology. i am going to pm you for a question alright

i read a similar article unfortunately it didnt last long see my other thread
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34633