Seattle is Dying

[ADigitalArtist]

Jobs would. Capitalism creates jobs.

Right now the biggest entrepreneurs (such as Amazon here in the pacific nw) only create bad jobs. Jobs with low wages and high worker exploitation. And they lowball local businesses and put them under and force crappy jobs to being the only game in town.

 

[PureX]

Jobs would. Capitalism creates jobs.

Capitalism seeks to exploit everyone involved in commercial enterprise for the benefit of the capital owner/investor. What jobs it creates will be designed to exploit the worker for as much profit as possible. This doesn't 'solve' anyone's problems but the capitalists, as it creates an environment of contention, frustration, and resentment. It's the reason our whole culture is collapsing from the horrible psychological weight of our letting greed run amok.

I'm sure Seattle has plenty of jobs available, if you're willing to work for a wage that cannot possibly sustain you.

 

[Nakosis]

Right now the biggest entrepreneurs (such as Amazon here in the pacific nw) only create bad jobs. Jobs with low wages and high worker exploitation. And they lowball local businesses and put them under and force crappy jobs to being the only game in town.

It's not really the business owner's job to deal with homelessness or gentrification. This is where government comes in. I'll concede three things I feel is important, health, education and welfare. These things should be important for the health of any nation.

What is important for business is to have a sustainable workforce. There is a high influx of Asians into the Seattle area for the high tech jobs. What I would do, if I was in the government would be to work with these companies to develop affordable housing to support the workforce. They have to show these companies that it is in their own best interests to support a sustainable work-force.

I don't know what an alternative would be. The population is going to increase which will decrease the available housing so you'll end up needed new housing development anyway. All these people will also need jobs so stagnating the economy is no solution.

Capitalism seeks to exploit everyone involved in commercial enterprise for the benefit of the capital owner/investor. What jobs it creates will be designed to exploit the worker for as much profit as possible. This doesn't 'solve' anyone's problems but the capitalists, as it creates an environment of contention, frustration, and resentment. It's the reason our whole culture is collapsing from the horrible psychological weight of our letting greed run amok.

I'm sure Seattle has plenty of jobs available, if you're willing to work for a wage that cannot possibly sustain you.

I don't think railing against capitalism is any kind of a solution. However, what would you suggest?

 

[Valjean]

How do you view the root cause?

The Vietnam war undermined Johnson's very successful Great Society program, and the massive defunding of social and welfare programs, subsidized housing, and education, beginning ~1980, that slowly allowed the decay of infrastructure and unraveling of the social fabric is largely to blame.

Blame "small government" and "voodoo economics;" the idea that government is the problem, not the solution.
Investing in programs that don't yield dividends in the next couple quarters is no longer seen as desirable. It violates the Neoliberal business ethic.

Government is not a business enterprise. Don't run it as such. Government is a social co-operative.

 

[Valjean]

Bad government.

How would I fix it? Bring in a horde of capitalist entrepreneurs.

Jobs would. Capitalism creates jobs.

Capitalism, more specifically, unchecked Neoliberal capitalism, is the cause, not the solution. Capitalism is competitive, it's zero sum; unchecked, it creates the extreme social stratification and wealth inequality we see today.

What, in your opinion, allowed all the jobs to relocate overseas after the "small government"wave of deregulation and corporate tax cuts?
The corporatists are not the "job creators." Don't feed them!

 

[Valjean]

That's part of what caused the problems. All these selfish capitalists buying up tons of low income housing and offices, Flipping them into these sterile Starbucks neighborhoods, and then jacking up the prices. Viola! Gentrification. Now more than 10% of properties lay empty and a bunch of locals got priced out of their homes. The city overall gets poorer while rich capitalists make money on contributing negatively to the zone.

That's exactly the capitalist ethic. Greed is good. Failing to take advantage of a potential profit-making opportunity is bad.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

It's not really the business owner's job to deal with homelessness or gentrification. This is where government comes in. I'll concede three things I feel is important, health, education and welfare. These things should be important for the health of any nation.

What is important for business is to have a sustainable workforce. There is a high influx of Asians into the Seattle area for the high tech jobs. What I would do, if I was in the government would be to work with these companies to develop affordable housing to support the workforce. They have to show these companies that it is in their own best interests to support a sustainable work-force.

I don't know what an alternative would be. The population is going to increase which will decrease the available housing so you'll end up needed new housing development anyway. All these people will also need jobs so stagnating the economy is no solution.

We don't need new housing. Again, ten percent of the housing is already standing empty because people who want to live there can't afford it. As a result a large chunk of people who work in Seattle don't live there, but in outliers like Kirland and Bellevue. Those in the working class who do live there struggle mightily because the jobs don't adequately cover expenses. And workforces don't care how quickly they burn through employees, because people seeking jobs is high. So they run these scummy workplaces which are horrid to work in, and then tell the workforce that if they don't like it, they are easily replaceable. And if they ever have any financial fluctuation, they axe a bunch of employees while the higher ups have no consequence, reap insurance benefits, and then start the chain over again. So right now it's really *not* in their best interest to support a sustainable workforce.

Seattle would have been better off if the tech giants never arrived.

 

[Valjean]

Capitalism seeks to exploit everyone involved in commercial enterprise for the benefit of the capital owner/investor. What jobs it creates will be designed to exploit the worker for as much profit as possible. This doesn't 'solve' anyone's problems but the capitalists, as it creates an environment of contention, frustration, and resentment. It's the reason our whole culture is collapsing from the horrible psychological weight of our letting greed run amok.
I'm sure Seattle has plenty of jobs available, if you're willing to work for a wage that cannot possibly sustain you.

It's how capitalism operates. Maximize profits, minimize expenses -- workers are an expense.

The post-war economic boom and capitalist success here in the states was due to regulation, collective bargaining, and high corporate taxation. Remove those, as Lewis Powell recommended, and, well, you see what we got.

The Lewis Powell Memo: Corporate Blueprint to Dominate Democracy

 

[Valjean]

It's not really the business owner's job to deal with homelessness or gentrification. This is where government comes in. I'll concede three things I feel is important, health, education and welfare. These things should be important for the health of any nation.

But that's... Big Government! What are you, some kind of socialist?

I don't think railing against capitalism is any kind of a solution. However, what would you suggest?

But what if capitalism is the cause?

People on the right really need to bone up on their history.

 

[PureX]

I don't think railing against capitalism is any kind of a solution. However, what would you suggest?

We have to face the problem before we can address it. So I "rail" until we wake the "F" up and face the REAL culprit, here.

What I suggest that we make commerce serve humanity, instead of making humanity serve commerce. Is that really such a difficult concept for us to accept?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

They need to be taken out of the cities and neighborhoods and communities by force and given forced treatment, its like their addictions and other problems are an actual disease, they can not be expected to be responsible for themselves or shaping up on their own, their being left to do as they please is making a mess of everything.

Well, I don't know if I'd put those things near the cause. The cause is clearly systematic, there just isn't much for these people to do really, manpower is being replaced by machine power. But this isn't really a debate thread, so I won't continue.. Also could you please put spaces every so often, otherwise it's hard to read if you write a lot

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Right now the biggest entrepreneurs (such as Amazon here in the pacific nw) only create bad jobs. Jobs with low wages and high worker exploitation. And they lowball local businesses and put them under and force crappy jobs to being the only game in town.

we got some amazon stuff going up near me on one of the industrial side street here, in my midwestern town.. they got a distribution center up now, but they are gonna make a warehouse. Might be a job in there for me if the local business I work for goes under, if they need a forklift driver.. I guess we'll see. I definitely don't like being a manual truck loader or sorter, I'm getting kinda old for that

 

[ADigitalArtist]

we got some amazon stuff going up near me on one of the industrial side street here, in my midwestern town.. they got a distribution center up now, but they are gonna make a warehouse. Might be a job in there for me if the local business I work for goes under, if they need a forklift driver.. I guess we'll see. I definitely don't like being a manual truck loader or sorter, I'm getting kinda old for that

I wish you luck. I know a lot of people at amazon warehouse jobs end up quitting because it was exceptionally demanding on their body, even for usual warehouse work. Lots of hours and not lots of appreciation.

 

[Kenny]

The Vietnam war undermined Johnson's very successful Great Society program, and the massive defunding of social and welfare programs, subsidized housing, and education, beginning ~1980, that slowly allowed the decay of infrastructure and unraveling of the social fabric is largely to blame.

Blame "small government" and "voodoo economics;" the idea that government is the problem, not the solution.
Investing in programs that don't yield dividends in the next couple quarters is no longer seen as desirable. It violates the Neoliberal business ethic.

Government is not a business enterprise. Don't run it as such. Government is a social co-operative.

Anything beyond this, this are out of position:

The Role of the Federal Government

“form a more perfect union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.”

The Constitution’s articles, and the subsequent Amendments, specify the powers of our government. They are listed in Article I, Sec. 8; Articles II-V; Amendments XIII-XVI, XIX-XX, XXIII-XXVI. These powers derived from one of the following categories:

 

[Nakosis]

We have to face the problem before we can address it. So I "rail" until we wake the "F" up and face the REAL culprit, here.

What I suggest that we make commerce serve humanity, instead of making humanity serve commerce. Is that really such a difficult concept for us to accept?

Sure, I have a few ideas but it is mostly an issue for government.

 

[Nakosis]

But that's... Big Government! What are you, some kind of socialist?

I think there are times social programs are necessary.

But what if capitalism is the cause?

The cause of prosperity, sure. Capitalism allows an area to become more affluent.

People on the right really need to bone up on their history.

We have the problem of gentrification in several cities. What can history teach us about this?

 

[Nakosis]

We don't need new housing. Again, ten percent of the housing is already standing empty because people who want to live there can't afford it. As a result a large chunk of people who work in Seattle don't live there, but in outliers like Kirland and Bellevue. Those in the working class who do live there struggle mightily because the jobs don't adequately cover expenses. And workforces don't care how quickly they burn through employees, because people seeking jobs is high. So they run these scummy workplaces which are horrid to work in, and then tell the workforce that if they don't like it, they are easily replaceable. And if they ever have any financial fluctuation, they axe a bunch of employees while the higher ups have no consequence, reap insurance benefits, and then start the chain over again. So right now it's really *not* in their best interest to support a sustainable workforce.

Seattle would have been better off if the tech giants never arrived.

Well, I can't agree that a stagnant economy is better. Without job growth, you run out of jobs. The government needs to control rent or provide a plan of affordable housing or find a way to support homeownership

When I was homeless, back in Denver the government provided technical training and shelter. They helped me get a job and an apartment. What is the city of Seattle doing?

 

[Revoltingest]

Paris isn't doing so well either....
Coronavirus France: Gridlock as people flee Paris before lockdown | Daily Mail Online

 

[Valjean]

I think there are times social programs are necessary.

The cause of prosperity, sure. Capitalism allows an area to become more affluent.

That depends. Who is becoming more affluent, and at who's expense?
Silicon Valley is very affluent, but not for everyone. Much of the population lives in cars or tents.
The Reagan revolution curbed a recession, and created affluence -- temporarily. In the long term it had the opposite effect. Study your history.

Without the regulation that existed during the period of America's post war golden age, corporations create stratification and wealth inequality; a tiny financial elite and a huge, largely impoverished working class.

We have the problem of gentrification in several cities. What can history teach us about this?

That unrestrained capitalism causes poverty, displacement and homelessness?

 

[Valjean]

Well, I can't agree that a stagnant economy is better. Without job growth, you run out of jobs.

Stagnant, or 'stable'? Nothing can grow forever. It's a finite planet.

The government needs to control rent or provide a plan of affordable housing or find a way to support homeownership

Sounds like socialism, to me...