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Featured Searching for truth.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Conscious thoughts, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    google 'science'.
     
  2. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Good words! A couple of comments...Mom was not
    talking about a life of service, as such.
    Balance!

    But yes, sometime navel-gazing can become distorted into narcissistic self-congratulations. The ego is tenacious, and it will seek for anything it can claim to "look good" when it seeks validation for itself.

    To me, seeking "Nirvana" seems like an ultimate in
    self indulgence.

    I kind of think that is what takes over, for many.
    One form or another of self indulgence.
    I will quit quoting Mom after this, but, her saying,
    allowing for not quite adequate translation would be
    that "self indulgence is the source of much evil".

    Spiritual ego is a sneaky one, since it is after all doing "good works".

    What is the term, the "white guilt industrial complex"? :D

    Well, as noted earlier, I do not identify myself as
    some sort of seeker. Not on a "path", not looking
    about for Truth or a Fountain. If they are there,
    maybe that is the way to find them by not seeking at all?
    I guess that is kinda what you said.

    I am in a very transitional period in my life, with a
    bit too much spare time, but that wont be so
    for a lot longer. "Answers" are not being sought.

    I will though continue to try to grow in maturity
    and self awareness, and try to give back more
    than I get. Wherever that ultimately will take me,
    who knows.

    Your post is interesting and thoughtful, but for me
    it leaves still unanswered, what do you do with it
    when you find it?
     
    #42 Audie, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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  3. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Dont be tiresome.
     
  4. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm.
     
  5. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    I don't really. It's been so long since I looked at reality from such a dualistic perspective. I'm just interested in experience. (In other words, I've already found so much "truth" that I can afford to slum for a few lifetimes.)
     
  6. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    We are, by this quest-account for "truth inside",
    reminded of the story of
    the men who decided to go find the far
    edge of the universe. The traveled long,
    and they traveled far!

    Really far and fast and ong!!

    But,finally, they saw up ahead, a wall. Cautiously
    approaching, they saw that it was covered with
    graffiti!

    AND, a large sign, in every language of the universe:

    When they finally found it in English, it read:

    HALT THIS IS THE END OF THE UNIVERSE

    Below that, a smaller sign, next to a hole in the
    wall, likewise in every language.

    "if you do not believe it, look for yourself"

    They looked through, and, sure enough-
    There was nothing there.
     
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  7. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Yeah. It's cultural differences. There are multiple cultures in VA, but only three pronounced and everyone else in between. Years ago, we didn't have a variety of people out of town. So, we're learning from each other.

    I've only been to NY once. I'm in Virginia. We still somewhat a country state until, dos, buildin's start appearing outta nowhere it seems. I always wondered if Virginians have an accent. I've been here all my life, I wouldn't know.
     
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  8. Hawkins

    Hawkins Well-Known Member

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    A truth is an objective occurrence, in the past, in present or in the future within our own space. What humans can efficiently detect are those in present and in present only inside our space. Humans can never efficiently detect truth lying outside of our current time and current space. One of the most fundamental way for humans to approach a truth, whether the truth is lying inside or outside of our time and space is by human testimony. We humans lack the capability to reach the past, and that's why we have to rely on history written by historians lived in the different spots of the timeline of humanity. History however are extremely narrow recordings about 1 out of zillion human activities. We have only the capability to keep records of those deemed famous events and figures.

    Not only so, humans also had the problem of keeping those written records before the invention of paper. Yet one more problem is that, after the invention of paper and human migrating the written records from ancient scrolls or tablets to their paper form, we lost most of the original documents in scrolls or tables. Thus we can't reconcile most of them with their original writings.

    History are easier to be accepted as "facts" simply because 1) they are records of human behaviors which we can speculate the same or similar in today's world, and 2) we don't have a choice to reject them as by doing so we thus have no history.

    The Bible on the other hand, are records about God's deeds. It thus may go beyond our comprehension. However, similar to history, it remains the only way humans can reach a truth (shall it be a truth). To put it another way and for the sake of argument, if the Christianity God is the truth, the only possible way for humans to get to such a truth is by putting faith in the Bible (in a fashion such as humans do to our history).

    In this process, what humans don't really understand is the process of human witnessing (i.e., why our history is so written). Only when you are willing to and knowledgeable to compare the Bible with our history by following the process of what valid human witnessing could mean, you thus would be able to reject the validity of other religious documents than the Bible.
     
    #48 Hawkins, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  9. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    Truth is both relative and absolute.

    Relative truth is of an intellectual nature, while the Absolute truth is of the nature of an experiential nature.

    Modern education emphasises truth of a relative nature, in the domain of space, time, matter, energy and causation.

    Understanding the Absolute requires the transcendence of the intellect, because the intellect only
    operates by the pair of opposites, and is essentially dualistic.

    Our intellect can register a situation or a condition only with reference to the comparative estimate of its opposite.Thus, I can understand light only with reference to my knowledge of darkness. Comparison is the only way of understanding given to man. If there is no contrast for a thing, we cannot gain knowledge of that thing. - Swami Chinmayananda
     
  10. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Are all of those records of deeds about things
    that actually happened?

    Like, is the 6 day creation a metaphor, a history,
    beyond comprehension, or what?
     
  11. Hawkins

    Hawkins Well-Known Member

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    In terms of witnessing then yes. Creation strictly speaking is not a human account witnessing. That is, Moses didn't watch how this world was created. It's God who told Moses so. He won't tell something completely nonsense to Moses who is an ancient figure without any knowledge of science. At least the Bible is not written as a book of science. Instead that's the way what God should say in terms of witnessing.

    That said. The question here for you is, what is time scientifically? What is time in terms of Einstein's relativity and quantum physics. Humans' understanding of time is incomplete! If so then base on what you judge that "6 days are not possible"? The speculation that "6 days are not possible" is completely based off our human conception about time that time must be stable and progressing evenly forward. However this very conception itself is questionable even in terms of science!
     
    #51 Hawkins, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  12. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    I'll try to answer your question to me in addressing this point. Yes, when someone sets their intention to moving beyond who they are in this world, to finding love, joy, and peace, many a trap lay in wait for them on that path. It's where the mythologies arise, dragons at the edge of the world, Jesus facing Satan in his wilderness temptation, etc, all to say "don't be beguiled and fall off the path."

    I found early on for myself that there seems this incredible hair's-breadth line between seeking to gain for yourself, and seeking love for the sake of love itself, abandoning all who you are in order rest in that ocean. As I said the ego becomes recognized in its sneaky ways. When someone embarks on that path, if they are not truly committed to the path, then ego will prevail and still reign, except now as a "spiritual person". The search for the spiritual, becomes an attraction for the ego, seeking a new niche market for itself to hide in plain sight.

    If you're not familiar with the Buddhist concepts of the far and near enemies, it's a good one to keep in mind about anything in our lives, really. The far enemy is the exact opposite of something and is obvious to us. For instance the far enemy of compassion is indifference, or being callused. The near enemy is deceptive because it masquares itself as the desired quality or trait. So the near of compassion is pity. That's not actually compassion, but it looks like it because you are "caring". We use the near enemy to lie to ourselves about the truth we don't want to see.

    Another term for this more recent than that is called "spiritual bypassing". Rather than meditating to see beyond the veil of our own illusions and find Peace, it's used to have a spiritual experience. Meditation becomes about surfing the crests of the waves, seeking a high, and not about doing actual work. There are these experiences in meditation naturally. But they are to open us up to see what is there if we do the work and lift all the rocks out of the way in our gardens, which means a lot of very hard, painful discovery and letting go.

    That is what spiritual work is actually all about. But the "spiritual bypassing" part comes in because these become the sought-after goal. And when you have these experiences, which can be quite profound, you use them to validate that you are doing well. It's a "near enemy" in this sense, and the devil that will trick you into thinking you've arrived, whereas as you've only found a new home for the ego. You're still not letting go yet. :)

    So yes, you'll see a lot of that. It's just the nature of the beast. Anyone is susceptible to that. But not all fall for it.

    I use those as metaphors to describe what it's like. I could use a hundred others. For me, I wasn't seeking that when it first happened spontaneously. That's what it is for a lot of people, and since I mentioned Abraham Maslow before, that is what his book, Religions, Values, and Peak-Experiences, is about. Needless to say, they have a profound impact on the person which typically changes their lives. My own has been the core of who I am, and my path has been winding my way around to find myself Home in that again. Nothing in the ego satisfies like that.

    The thing to bear in mind with these metaphors, that while it sounds like it's a "thing", it really is just the nature of what reality has become to you in that state of absolute Freedom. It's the same thing we see every day. Our mythologies from religion create images of "heaven" as a "place". But in reality, all the myths are just symbolic ways to talk about an experience of Reality, which is described as full of Light, Life, and Love. It's not an object somewhere that is the source of that. It's Source is in you. In everything.

    Nor should you ever look for "Answers". That's a problem to begin with, because it assume the rational mind can grasp reality, when it can't even grasp itself! :)

    Well, amen to that! Absolutely. It is about growth. I swear, sometimes I think it just truly takes just getting old enough for us to set all our other projects aside and to begin to get in touch with who we truly are. And if we do that deeply enough, we find we are love. From there then, life become alive for the first time. "It's been there the whole time". It's only us that wasn't seeing Reality back then, when we were young, and seeking Answers with a capital A to fit into the boxes of our young minds.

    Live life without fear. Love without fear. To become free and joyful in life. To know and be Peace. To become human. To awaken.
     
  13. MJ Bailey

    MJ Bailey Member

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    What if in reincarnation before you were born you "watched" over an individual?
     
  14. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    you mean as a guardian for someone?
     
  15. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    In seeking truth I recognize the context in which I or a community recognizes or denies a truth. What further truth does a truth "serve".
     
  16. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    The white guilt industrial complex I spoke of would
    be an example of "near" enemy.

    Love without fear?

    I said I would not quote Mom again, but here I go.

    I have been in fear, imminent fear for my life.

    Mom knows about that. But-

    She told me "you will never know what fear
    really is, until your child is in danger."


    I cant help wondering if you guys are not trying
    to train yourselves to not experience, well, the human
    experience.


    I'd have another quote, or, not really a quote, it is
    a concept that I never have felt I really understood,
    but it was about learning to value all experiences.
     
  17. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    Truth is never static but ever changing and unfolding. Each day I seek the wisdom through prayer and meditation to navigate the day to day challenges of life.

    An important aspect of that truth is the spiritual path we each choose. Whether we follow Moses, Christ, Buddha or Krishna, they are all Manifestations of the Eternal Dharma.

    What is taught in one age such as some aspects of Sharia or Mosaic law may be perfectly suited to the age and place in which they were revealed but unsuitable for the modern era.
     
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  18. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    Because of the compelling evidence to me for Salvador's God, there's good reason for me to believe in this cosmic ancestor(s) of extraterrestrial intelligence who invented our genetic code where the semantic message of 037 is embedded by Salvador's God who is everybody's cosmic ancestor.

    Extraterrestrial intelligence has left its/their mark in our genetic code as evident by how the numeric and semantic message of 037 appears in our genetic code. Each codon relates to 3 other particular codons having the same particular type of initial nucleobase and sequential nucleobase subsequently then followed by a different ending nucleobase. Half of these 4 set of codon groups ( whole family codons ) each code for the same particular amino acid. The other half of those 4 set of codon groups ( split codons ) don't code for the same amino acid. So then, in the case of whole family codons, there are 37 amino acid peptide chain nucleons for each relevant nucleobase determinant of how a particular amino acid gets coded. Start codons express 0 at the beginning of 37 Hence, the semantic message of 037 gets unambiguously and factually conveyed to us descendants of our cosmic ancestor(s) with our genetic code invented by a superior intelligence beyond that of anybody presently bound to Earth.

    Salvador's God is the proven inventor of our genetic code as evident in the "WOW! Signal of the Terrestrial Genetic Code" that scientists discovered back in 2012.

    Reference: The "Wow! signal" of the terrestrial genetic code. Vladimir l. shCherbak and Maxim A. Makukov. Icarus, May 2013, Redirectinghttps://www.scribd.com/document/35302916...netic-Code

    The significance of the semantic message "037" embedded in our genetic coding is well-explained in the following journal articles: .
    Biosystems Volume 70, Issue 3, August 2003, Pages 187-209 "Arithmetic inside the universal genetic code" Author: Vladimir I. shCherbak
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...4703000662

    NeuroQuantology | December 2011 | Vol 9 | Issue 4 | Page 702-715 Masic, Natasa Nested Properties of shCherbak’s PQ 037 and (Biological) Coding/Computing Nested Numeric/Geometric/Arithmetic Propertiesof shCherbak’s Prime Quantum 037 as a Base of (Biological) Coding/Computing
    http://Nested Numeric/Geometric/Arithmetic Properties


    Exactly who/what left its/their mark in our genetic coding might not ever get determined by anybody presently bound to Earth. The search for our cosmic relatives and cosmic common ancestor likely then needs to be done with advanced space exploration.

    Whether there is extraterrestrial intelligent life with whom we Earthlings share a common cosmic ancestor who is Salvador's God would be testable with advanced space probes capable of interstellar space travel and DNA probing of extraterrestrial life forms.
     
    #58 Salvador, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  19. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Ok so the bible story of creation is just a story.

    Very like all the other creation myths from across
    cultures and time.

    I did not say that "6 days is not possible."
    So your response to that is kinda irrelevant.
    Esp as it is just a story, not an account of deeds,
    at all.

    You didnt say if it is to be taken as an analogy,
    metaphor, or what.

    In the "deeds" dept, the "flood" seems pretty
    significant, the biggest single event in human
    history.

    Is that a deed, or (just) a story?

    I guess I need to learn what you mean by a
    record of deeds.
     
  20. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    What if the number the number of living beings in the universe were a fluctuating amount or increasing amount instead of a constant fixed amount, then reincarnation couldn't possibly occur; because the amount of current living bodies that reincarnated souls now would possess could never equal the number of previous bodies in past lives that could have been possessed by the present amount of reincarnated souls.
     
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