Searching for truth

[Twilight Hue]

Hi I'm new to forums looking for clarification on scriptures in KJV.

Maybe read a biography on King James.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[omega2xx]

What translation is better

My preference is the New American Standard Bible. Other good translation are The New King James, The New Revised Standard version and a few more. Goggle "most accurate Bible."

If you are going to get a different translation, spend a little more and get a study Bible, that has footnotes and cross references.

 

[omega2xx]

Any ideas as to which translation you prefer.
To me a 'better', so to speak, translation would be in modern-day English.
As far as the Christian Scriptures are concerned, a Greek Interlinear showing the Greek on one side of the page with the English on the other helps with comparing translations. (Paraphrased versions are Not translations )
As far as the old Hebrew Scriptures I consult the translated Stone Edition TANACH

That is some pretty good advice but unless one reads Greek, an interlinear is of little value IMO. Good translations are not paraphrases.

I have never heard of the Stone Edition, but IMO, the NASB is accurate for both testaments.

 

[Stonecrown29295]

I find that many connect the two forms as being the same.
In the modern-day slave-trade business those people were sold by their own people to other peoples.
Please notice in ancient Israel if the master mistreated his slave, then his slave was No longer a slave.
Please note: Exodus 21:20-21; Exodus 21:26-27 (KJV uses the word servant, but the Hebrew says slave)
Slaves were to be treated as ' hired help ' according to Leviticus 25:39-40.
The Israelites were to have love for others as mentioned at Leviticus 19:17-18.
Also, you may want to keep in mind that in ancient Israel there were No jails or debtors prisons.
So, if a person fell into poverty then he could serve as a slave to pay off his debts.
The ' slave ' period could only last up to six years, the seventh year they were set free.
You might want to look up information about the 'Jubilee Year ' because when that year come debtors were set free.

I will check out the jubilee maybe i am missing something thanks

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That is some pretty good advice but unless one reads Greek, an interlinear is of little value IMO. Good translations are not paraphrases.
I have never heard of the Stone Edition, but IMO, the NASB is accurate for both testaments.

The reason I mentioned the Stone Edition ( Tanach ) is because like a Greek Interlinear, the Stone Edition shows both the Hebrew and the English, a Hebrew Interlinear.
One can consult with a Hebrew professor, and a Greek professor, and researchers can refer to the ancient manuscripts, so an interlinear Greek or Hebrew is of GREAT value to me.
Also, since the Bible is Not written in ABC order, then comparing the corresponding cross-reference verses and passages by subject or by topic arrangement also shows the internal harmony among the Bible writers.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I understand that part but thats for fellow Hebrew's,people from other nations fall under different rules and a hebrew slave could become a slave for life if given a wife and has kids he doesn't want to leave and they could beat them

Yes, a slave ( treated like hired help ) who was Not beaten, nor mistreated, so what verses says beat them.
I do see where being a servant/slave for life as an indication of that then one's ear would be pierced.
I don't see ' beat ' in the verses at Deuteronomy 15:16-17 nor in comparison to Exodus 21:5-6.

 

[omega2xx]

The reason I mentioned the Stone Edition ( Tanach ) is because like a Greek Interlinear, the Stone Edition shows both the Hebrew and the English, a Hebrew Interlinear.
One can consult with a Hebrew professor, and a Greek professor, and researchers can refer to the ancient manuscripts, so an interlinear Greek or Hebrew is of GREAT value to me.
Also, since the Bible is Not written in ABC order, then comparing the corresponding cross-reference verses and passages by subject or by topic arrangement also shows the internal harmony among the Bible writers.

I have resources that can look to the meaning of all Greek and Hebrew words. The are more than dictionaries, They go into great depths beyond just the literal definition. I think I have an interlinear somewhere. If I can find it, I may take a closer look at it.

 

[Stonecrown29295]

That is some pretty good advice but unless one reads Greek, an interlinear is of little value IMO. Good translations are not paraphrases.

I have never heard of the Stone Edition, but IMO, the NASB is accurate for both testaments.

Yeah i have never heard of stone edition either

Yes, a slave ( treated like hired help ) who was Not beaten, nor mistreated, so what verses says beat them.
I do see where being a servant/slave for life as an indication of that then one's ear would be pierced.
I don't see ' beat ' in the verses at Deuteronomy 15:16-17 nor in comparison to Exodus 21:5-6.

I might be wrong but i think its in exodus 21 verse 20-21 it does say smite not beat though in kjv

 

[Kenny]

Ok thanks i was mainly talking about the slavery part and how i dont see much difference between slavery in south and slavery in the bible because its still owning another person

I think anytime someone takes out a loan, its slavery. The borrower is servant to the lender. So many people are so high in debt that they basically are working for the people who loaned them money.

 

[Stonecrown29295]

I think anytime someone takes out a loan, its slavery. The borrower is servant to the lender. So many people are so high in debt that they basically are working for the people who loaned them money.

I dont think loans are slavery because the lender doesn't own the person as property.

 

[Deeje]

I have read some different translations mostly kjv and niv

I agree with URAVIP2ME....Don't ever just take your understanding of scripture based on one translation. Unless you have the original meanings of the original words (remembering that language changes over time) you want a modern translation that has kept up with translation scholarship or an interlinear that explains word for word what the original text says. There is no point in translating a word if the meaning has been changed.

A classic case in point is Matthew 19:13-15

KJV
"13 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
15 And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence."

NLT
"13 One day some parents brought their children to Jesus so he could lay his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples scolded the parents for bothering him.
14 But Jesus said, “Let the children come to me. Don’t stop them! For the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to those who are like these children.” 15 And he placed his hands on their heads and blessed them before he left."

NASB
13 Then some children were brought to Him so that He might lay His hands on them and pray; and the disciples rebuked them. 14 But Jesus said,"Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” 15 After laying His hands on them, He departed from there."

How often I have seen part of this passage from the KJV inscribed on children's gravestones "Suffer the little children to come unto me." in the false belief that children who suffered would go straight to Jesus. As you can see, in the other translations, no "suffering" was mentioned. The KJV is not an accurate translation as it relies on archaic English that is no longer used in today's world.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yeah i have never heard of stone edition either
I might be wrong but i think its in exodus 21 verse 20-21 it does say smite not beat though in kjv

The sacred Hebrew writings began with the ' Tanakh' or 'Tanach'.
Tanakh comes from the three (3)divisions of the Jewish Scriptures [Ta Na Kh, or Ch ] Law, Prophets, Writings.

Exodus 21:20-21 KJV and if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he dies under his hand; he [the man] shall be surely punished. Verse 21 continues if he continues a day or two, he [the man] shall not be punished, and the reason given is because the slave is his money.
In verse 20 the Hebrew uses the word ' avenged ' [Not punished] so the slave would be 'avenged ' please see Leviticus 24:17.
If he survives, then he shall Not be 'avenged' because he is his property, or in other words, the slave was someone bought with the owner's money to pay off the debt til 6 years are up, or til the Jubilee Year.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I dont think loans are slavery because the lender doesn't own the person as property.

They might Not own you, but if they can send you to jail, then the jail will own you. [ ponzi scheme didn't work ]

 

[Nietzsche]

I think anytime someone takes out a loan, its slavery. The borrower is servant to the lender. So many people are so high in debt that they basically are working for the people who loaned them money.

I'm going to be very frank here;

Your definition of "slavery" is almost insulting to the countless millions who've been actually enslaved. Africans in pre-Civil-War America, the majority of those conquered by Nazi Germany, victims of the Barbary Slave trade, so on so forth.

 

[Stonecrown29295]

I'm going to be very frank here;

Your definition of "slavery" is almost insulting to the countless millions who've been actually enslaved. Africans in pre-Civil-War America, the majority of those conquered by Nazi Germany, victims of the Barbary Slave trade, so on so forth.

I agree it is insulting

 

[Kenny]

I dont think loans are slavery because the lender doesn't own the person as property.

If a person pays a 30 year mortgage at 1500/month and he earns 3000 a month then the mortgage controls and is a slave to the loan for half of his working life for 3o years.

 

[Kenny]

I'm going to be very frank here;

Your definition of "slavery" is almost insulting to the countless millions who've been actually enslaved. Africans in pre-Civil-War America, the majority of those conquered by Nazi Germany, victims of the Barbary Slave trade, so on so forth.

I would agree with you. I wasn't making that equal analogy. (and my humble apology)

The million of sex slaves of today are the real modern slaves.

 

[Stonecrown29295]

The sacred Hebrew writings began with the ' Tanakh' or 'Tanach'.
Tanakh comes from the three (3)divisions of the Jewish Scriptures [Ta Na Kh, or Ch ] Law, Prophets, Writings.

Exodus 21:20-21 KJV and if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he dies under his hand; he [the man] shall be surely punished. Verse 21 continues if he continues a day or two, he [the man] shall not be punished, and the reason given is because the slave is his money.
In verse 20 the Hebrew uses the word ' avenged ' [Not punished] so the slave would be 'avenged ' please see Leviticus 24:17.
If he survives, then he shall Not be 'avenged' because he is his property, or in other words, the slave was someone bought with the owner's money to pay off the debt til 6 years are up, or til the Jubilee Year.

Why didn't Leviticus 24:17 apply in exodus 2:12

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why didn't Leviticus 24:17 apply in exodus 2:12

Interesting question ^ above ^ and I find the answer to be: because Exodus 2:12 took place long before the Constitution of the Mosaic Law went into effect. Leviticus 24:17 is part of that temporary Law for ancient Israel.

Moses, before the Mosaic Law, I find according to Acts of the Apostles 7:24-25, that Moses avenged the abused person.

 

[Stonecrown29295]

Interesting question ^ above ^ and I find the answer to be: because Exodus 2:12 took place long before the Constitution of the Mosaic Law went into effect. Leviticus 24:17 is part of that temporary Law for ancient Israel.

Moses, before the Mosaic Law, I find according to Acts of the Apostles 7:24-25, that Moses avenged the abused person.

Ok that makes sense now thanks