Scripturally, Do believers go to heaven?

[wmam]

Ahhh, I see.

I doubt it.

Then you must not believe in the New Testament right?

Wrong!!!!!!!!!

So why bring up 2 Corinthians 12:2 if you don't believe in the NT? It would mean nothing to you.

<----------- Is this person ever really going to answer my questions or are they so stumped that they have to pester me to death over something that has no relevance on the topic at hand.

"I BELIEVE IN THE NT" <-------- just imagine this is in big flashing lights.

 

[Aqualung]

Ahhh, I see. Then you must not believe in the New Testament right? So why bring up 2 Corinthians 12:2 if you don't believe in the NT? It would mean nothing to you.

Does the point become less valid if he doesn't believe in the NT? Do you suddenly not have to comment on it?

 

[wmam]

Does the point become less valid if he doesn't believe in the NT? Do you suddenly not have to comment on it?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL................. Sorry............ Thats sooooooooooo funny.......... Stop it. ................. Please.....................LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL..........

I gotta go to bed and get my ugly sleep............. See ya'll tomorrw evening.

Shalom

 

[dawny0826]

I agree with Squirt. God is perfect. Hence, his love is perfect. Which means that his capacity to love is infinetley greater than our own and condemning someone who has never been taught about God is not an act of love. I feel that too many people take scripture at face value and don't apply reason and common sense to try and find the point that God is trying to make. The Bible as a whole is like a big parable and parables are ment to be approached with thinking. God gave us a brain to think and to reason. God wants us to question what we believe because it will make our faith that much stronger. Faith is a muscle, doubt and questioning are the weights. When it comes to our faith, God wants us to be body builders. If you just blindley accept and follow, and never question anything, your faith is poor.

I don't disagree with you, that God is perfect. But surely you can't disagree with me that man is imperect and in some way, shape or form, man has been condemned by God for His transgressions throughout the Bible.

condemn >verb 1 express complete disapproval of. 2 (usu. condemn to) sentence to a punishment, especially death. 3 force (someone) to endure something unpleasant. 4 officially declare to be unfit for use. 5 prove the guilt of.
-DERIVATIVES condemnation >noun condemnatory >adjective.
-ORIGIN Latin condemnare, from damnare 'inflict loss on'.

(As taken from my trust, crusty Corel WordPerfect dictionary. )

Read the OT of the Bible and work your way through. Just to cite ONE example...God Himself killed anyone on the spot who looked at or touched Mt. Sinai when He was speaking with Moses. What did God require for transgressions? Blood. What was the punishment for certain sins...death.

We should approach the Bible with common sense but we have to be careful...if we use our minds above our spirits in interpreting the Bible...we can very easily misconstrue what God's message is for our lives. Our minds are of the flesh. Our spirits, when in Christ...are NOT of the flesh. I think sometimes it's dangerous in a spiritual sense, to place our mental understanding of scripture above spiritual understanding of scripture. The Word is Spirit. Not implying that we shouldn't use our brains and common sense...I'm stating that above all we should seek the Holy Spirit at all times for spiritual understanding. The Holy Spirit always reveals the truth.

 

[Buttercup]

<----------- Is this person ever really going to answer my questions or are they so stumped that they have to pester me to death over something that has no relevance on the topic at hand.

"I BELIEVE IN THE NT" <-------- just imagine this is in big flashing lights.

What question have I not answered?

 

[Buttercup]

Does the point become less valid if he doesn't believe in the NT? Do you suddenly not have to comment on it?

I answered this question already...Some think this passage in 2 Corinthians may be a dream. There is not a general consensus on it. Then I asked the question after that about the three heavens for arguments sake. Go back and read please.

 

[Mister_T]

I answered this question already
Go back and read please

.

And here I thought I was the only one experiencing this problem.

 

[dawny0826]

Yes, I do, but I don't see it as a place of physical torment (i.e. an eternal pit of fire, etc.). I see it as a separation from God, eternally removed from His glory and love.

Yes, there is. But you must understand that the Spirit Prison is Hell. It is a place of mental anguish and torment, but it need not be a prison from which there is no chance for release. Jesus mentioned the "gates of hell." In this context, I don't believe He was speaking of the place where the Sons of Perdition will eventually be banished. I believe He was speaking of the Spirit Prison. (I explained why in a previous post, but I'm too tired to go back and figure out which one it was.) So the word "Hell" can have various meanings, depending upon the context.

Yup, you got that right.

So, just out of curiosity...how do you interpret scriptures such as these...

"And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you, for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, then for your whole body to be cast into hell." Matthew 6:30

"...But whoever says, "You fool!" shall be in danger of hell fire." Matthew 5:22

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear HIM who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 6:28

How can an individual have a second chance if the soul and body in "spirit prison" is destroyed?

I'm not trying to flame. I just really want to understand where you're coming from.

 

[Mister_T]

But surely you can't disagree with me that man is imperect and in some way, shape or form, man has been condemned by God for His transgressions throughout the Bible.

No, I don't disagree with you there. But I do believe that truley understanding and having a perfect interpretation of the Bible is impossible for us humans. You can get many different things out of one passage. How do we know which interpretation is correct? Well, we'll never truley know in this life time. Which is why prayer, reflection, and medition should be used in discernment.

 

[Buttercup]

No, I don't disagree with you there. But I do believe that truley understanding and having a perfect interpretation of the Bible is impossible for us humans. You can get many different things out of one passage. How do we know which interpretation is correct? Well, we'll never truley know in this life time. Which is why prayer, reflection, and medition should be used in discernment.

Boy, that's for sure. I just try my best. But I do truly believe Christ was God and he came to die for us and I've accepted him and asked for forgiveness. After that, it's all inconsequential to some degree. You can have 6 best friends all of the same denomination sit around a table talking about scripture and probably only half of them will agree...if you're lucky!

 

[Aqualung]

Scine wmam isnt' here...

What is the scriptural basis for believing that if you are a believer you will go to heaven?

 

[dawny0826]

John 3:16

 

[Buttercup]

Aqua, we went thru all this in our debate...I don't have the energy to debate you tonight, sorry. Go look at my answers and the scripture I quote in our debate.

 

[Mister_T]

Scine wmam isnt' here...

What is the scriptural basis for believing that if you are a believer you will go to heaven?

I answered yours. How bout you answer mine? You said that passage I gave you was talking about being right with God and Jesus not being a criteria.What's your definition of being right with God ? If your right with God you can go to Hell? If Jesus' sacrifice doesn't make us right with God then what does and where is the scripture saying that.

 

[shema]

I believe Jesus when he said "No one comes to the father except through me...he that believes in me shall not parrish but have everlasting life....in my fathers house there are many rooms/mansions, Im going there to prepare a place for you...I tell you the truth a unless you change and become liike little children you will never enter the kingdom of heaven therefore whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.....But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. the virgens who were ready went in with him and the door was shut, Later the others also came. Sir sir they said open the door fo us , but he replied, I tell you the truth i dont know you"...... and john when he said " then I saw a new heaven and a new earth."

Im only quoting scripture because I think that its a lot less complex, and more in tune to what real christians believe about heaven

 

[Buttercup]

Sorry wmam,

I think you are a flamer and I am going to decline answering any more of your questions. You won't give direct answers yourself and then belittle others who do. I have a feeling you don't believe in any God as I see you flame in the Muslim section as well. I asked you your religion and you gave me rhetoric.

If any other folks have a question you want to ask me ....feel free to PM me, thanks.

 

[may]

And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. revelation 14;1

And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: revelation 7;4

(Revelation 14:3) And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth revelation 14;3 144,000 will go to heaven to be with Jesus the rest will have the chance to inherit the earth

Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth matthew 5;5

But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,


​

And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace psalm 37;11

 

[No*s]

I say no.

What do you say?

I say yes. "Heaven" is simply a word to express the experience of God in the after-life (particularly when the world is re-ordered). It's not necessarily a place, but more an experience of God. Heaven begins now, just as Hell does.

 

[Aqualung]

John 3:16

That just says that all that believe will be saved and have eternal life. It doesn't mention "heaven" at all. Where do you get the notion that saved = going to heaven?

 

[dawny0826]

That just says that all that believe will be saved and have eternal life. It doesn't mention "heaven" at all. Where do you get the notion that saved = going to heaven?

John 3:16 states that when we believe in Christ...we will not perish.

Where do those who have eternal life go?

"For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather, to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord." 2 Cor. 5:7-8

Where is the Lord?

Heaven. I can give you a list of scripture to support this.