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Scripturally, Do believers go to heaven?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by wmam, Feb 26, 2006.

  1. dorcas3000

    dorcas3000 Member

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    yay for E-sword!!!
     
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  2. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    LOLLOL
     
  3. jeffrey

    jeffrey †ßig Dog†

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    Isn't that just a tad disrespectful? In fact, leaning on the arrogant side? I might not agree with squirt, for my path at least, but if that's the path God has chosen squirt to follow, by you mocking him, you're mocking God. :tsk:
     
  4. Buttercup

    Buttercup Veteran Member

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    You asked for scripture to back up my beliefs....there you go! I had a feeling you would mock me though. Nothing will be good enough for you I am guessing. Do you have that much scripture just sitting in your brain ready to go? I know I don't. I'm not great with memorizing scripture but i know where to look.

    The talk of one heaven is in the Bible a multitude more times than the one reference in 1 Corinthians to the third heaven. I say you go with the preponderence of evidence. Heaven in the singular is mentioned much, much more often in the bible.

    And I amnot understanding your reference to 2 Corinthians 12:2 I. This passage doesn't say anything about heaven.
     
  5. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Hmmm... Okay, so you believe that only those who accept christ will go to heaven. I believe that only those who accept christ will go to the celestial kingdom, but that pretty much everybody will inheret some degree of glory... And you're leaving?
     
  6. Buttercup

    Buttercup Veteran Member

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    Best thing to come along in years! :)
     
  7. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    I'm not mocking Squirt......... LOL ..... I am laughing at what he said. LOL............ I'm still laughing. What are you the joke police? LOLOLOLOL
     
  8. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    The 199 rooms was just an illustration that they're all marvelous beyond your wildest dreams, but that there are degrees. I saw squirt had a big answer. I'm going to read it before I answer something and risk repeting everything for nothing.
     
  9. Mister_T

    Mister_T Forum Relic
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    Um....I think Squirt is a she..........
     
  10. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Jesus won't be "standing right next to you." If you don't already believe in Christ, you'll go to a place where you are still open to temptations from the devil. Plus, you'll still have the same character traits you have now. If now you won't accept mormons because they're weird or whatever, you're not going to just suddenly lose that stubborn side of you and accept them.
     
  11. Buttercup

    Buttercup Veteran Member

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    Aqua, I will be in Heaven...of that I am certain. I have accepted Christ and his sacrifice for us.

    As far as not accepting Mormons....when did I say that? I happen to think Mormons are Christians....you just teach some very different stuff! :)
     
  12. jeffrey

    jeffrey †ßig Dog†

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    Actually, I'm thinking back at some of... well most of your posts.... But I guess when you have very limited arguement for anything, the best you can do is mock others. Most of the people in this forum can see this about your posts. funny, no. Sad, yes.
     
  13. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    Well, in 2 Corinthians 12:2, we read: "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."

    If there is a third heaven, it would certainly stand to reason that there is also a first and a second heaven. We don't believe them to be so much different heavens as different "degrees of glory" within the same heaven.

    As to where we get our doctrine on different "degrees of glory," 1 Corinthians 15:40-42 states, "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead."

    We interpret these verses as describing the differing degrees of God's glory that will be given to all of us in the resurrection. Three are mentioned in the verses I just quoted, the greatest being the Celestial (or glory of the sun), the next being the Terrestrial (or glory of the moon) and the last (unnamed in this passage), having the glory of the stars (we know it as the Telestial glory). We don't, incidentally, just interpret these verses in this way. The foundation for this belief comes from modern-day revelation. These scriptures just support the doctrine.

    Sorry, I couldn't find anything about 199 rooms. :D I don't believe that the difference between the reward given to one person and the reward given to another person will be material in nature. I'm not anticipating that gold, silver and bronze halos will be distributed. I believe that the various degrees of glory will be primarily a difference in our eternal potential to progess. The idea of a heaven where we sit around on clouds, strumming a harp doesn't appeal much to me. I'm sure there could be far worse things, but I personally hope for much more than that. I believe that God has much more in store for those who, through their obedience, are granted eternal life in the Celestial Kingdom.
     
  14. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    Yes, she did. Dawny's one in a million. She's going to be giving Feathers a run for her money. I don't know which of them is the sweetest!
     
  15. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    See ya there, Buttercup! :)
     
  16. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    Well thank ya, thank ya very much.

    Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh................ I so sorry. Did I hurt your little Buttercup feelings?

    Your probably right when it comes from those with their nose up so high.

    Yep.............. Like I said "E-SWORD".

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Now............ other than the dribble.....................
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    By what you are saying here is something that the Scripture plainly states isn't possible........

    Joh 10:35 “If He called them elohim, to whom the word of Elohim came – and it is impossible for the Scripture to be broken –

    For what you say to be true the Scripture would have to be broken and I for one will not believe that.

    The evils of copy and pasting...... 2 Corinthians 12:2 ;)
     
  17. Buttercup

    Buttercup Veteran Member

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    Ahhh, I see Squirt. It's 2 Corinthians 12:2, I thought wmam meant 21.

    I have heard some people think this passage is about a dream or something similar. Because there is so little written about a third heaven ( I don't know of any other passages) and much more is written of heaven in the singular, I come to the conclusion myself that there is one heaven....and I'm going! :) If when I get there there happens to be more than one...Jesus will let me know. But I don't think it matters....as long as I get to go to heaven period! :)
     
  18. Squirt

    Squirt Well-Known Member

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    I personally believe that there is only one heaven, but with differing degrees of glory. So the singular works fine for me.
     
  19. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    LOL ........... Sorry if dat be true. Hard to tell what is what on here. ;)
     
  20. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    So can you just throw out the one reference to the third heaven because it isn't as prolific as the other references? Don't you think it's wiser to try to interpret the verses with respect to each other? How can there only be one heaven if the Cor quote has there being at least three? In spanish, they refer to heaven as "los cielos" or "the skies." I think it's a mistake of translation to assume that when it says "heaven" it is referring to something more than just the skies, and that it is referring to a place that doesn't even exist yet (as we have not been judged by the final judgement, and therefore could not have gone either to heaven or hell yet).

    why are you so certain you will be in Heaven? Why are you so certain that accepting christ is the one criterium to get into heaven? ONce again, I find myself wondering what scripture you back this up with. Perhaps you would be so kind as to share that with me?

    I tried to make an illustration. eVerybody tried to take it literally. :rolleyes:
     
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