SCOTUS To Rule On Legality Of Religious Cross

[Skwim]

It's arguable that a memorial to servicemen in the shape of a cross actually violates the constitution.

Well, isolated crosses on public land anyway.

What's next? Should we go through Arlington National Cemetery and replace all of the headstones that have a cross?

The crosses, yes, but not stars of David, Unitarian flames, the EKs of Eckankar, or the toriis of Shintoism. These stay!

Whose house was this statue across the street from?

As I said, "you." SalixIncendium's house. How does it look?

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[Skwim]

And that's not a question that you want to ask of me. Ask it of someone whom it fits.

I know, but was hoping you could put yourself in their place.

Fortunately, I learned a phrase these last two years: fake news.

Nah. Not buying it. You no more believe it's fake news than Trumps believes all the h**** s*** things he's accused of saying and doing are fake.

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[Willamena]

As I pointed out elsewhere, atheists do have a symbol of their religious belief, a whirling atom.

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Oh, gross!

 

[Willamena]

I know, but was hoping you could put yourself in their place.

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Yeah *raises hand.* In case you didn't get it from my previous posts, I'm okay with the cross.



I'm not Christianophobic.

 

[SalixIncendium]

The cross has become as ubiquitous as it is only because Christians were in places of power to decide it would be used. And as I asked before, "How would you feel if, as a Jew, Unitarian, Bahai, Atheist, Muslim, Eckest, Wiccan, or any other of the 98 religions recognized by the military, your fallen son or daughter was memorialized by a cross? As a Christian how would you feel if instead of a cross to memorialize your son or daughter the symbol chosen was the atomic whirl of Atheism, or the pentacle of Wicca?

Again, the cross was erected in 1925. There were not 98 religions recognized by the military at that time. Wicca wasn't even a religion, let alone a religion recognized by the military. Can you tell me how many religions were recognized by the military during WW1?

 

[Willamena]

As I pointed out elsewhere, atheists do have a symbol of their religious belief, a whirling atom.

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This is the better symbol.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c4/50/68/...f8552f65d0--atheist-tattoo-atheist-symbol.jpg

It endorses holism, but with the circle broken; and secularism, in the form of a stylized "A" for Atheism. It's perfect.

 

[SalixIncendium]

As I said, "you." SalixIncendium's house. How does it look?

I take no issue with it. Why would it bother me? It's not on my property. Now that hideous pink furniture next to it? That's gotta go!

 

[Willamena]

Nah. Not buying it. You no more belief it's fake news than Trumps believes all h**** s*** things he's accused of saying and doing are fake.

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It is ""fake news"" because it has only one source (you), the source is not supported, and it is doubtful (based on the Legion's argument, backed up by my own experience).

 

[Skwim]

Again, the cross was erected in 1925. There were not 98 religions recognized by the military at that time. Wicca wasn't even a religion, let alone a religion recognized by the military. Can you tell me how many religions were recognized by the military during WW1?

No I can't. Although, aside from Christianity, I'm pretty sure Judaism would have been. Then of course, the non-believers (atheists and agnostics) would have been in the mix of fallen servicemen, recognized or not.

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[Skwim]

It is ""fake news"" because it has only one source (you), the source is not supported, and it is doubtful (based on the Legion's argument, backed up by my own experience).

Let me get this straight, you believe that my statement "The cross used to memorialize fallen service members was chosen only because it does represent Christianity." is "fake news." So I'm curious, why do you think the cross was chosen?

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[Skwim]

I take no issue with it. Why would it bother me? It's not on my property.

But it's bigger and more manly than yours.

Now that hideous pink furniture next to it? That's gotta go!

You insult my pink furniture; you insult my grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's father. And don't ask why. I'm not allowed to tell.

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[Willamena]

So let me get this straight, you believe that my statement "The cross used to memorialize fallen service members was chosen only because it does represent Christianity." is "fake news." So I'm curious, why do you think the cross was chosen?

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Loss.
"The Memorial Cross - more commonly referred to as the Silver Cross - introduced on December 1, 1919, is a symbol of personal loss and sacrifice on behalf of widows and mothers who lose a child on active duty, or whose death is later attributed to such duty. The Royal Canadian Legion’s provincial commands and individual Canadians submit nominations for the National Silver Cross Mother each year. The final recipient is chosen by a Dominion Command selection Committee."
The Royal Canadian Legion announces National Silver Cross Mother 2018-2019

 

[Skwim]

Loss.
"The Memorial Cross - more commonly referred to as the Silver Cross - introduced on December 1, 1919, is a symbol of personal loss and sacrifice on behalf of widows and mothers who lose a child on active duty, or whose death is later attributed to such duty. The Royal Canadian Legion’s provincial commands and individual Canadians submit nominations for the National Silver Cross Mother each year. The final recipient is chosen by a Dominion Command selection Committee."
The Royal Canadian Legion announces National Silver Cross Mother 2018-2019

So what? It's not a religious cross with an extended vertical leg like that erected in Bladensburg, Maryland.

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The National Silver Cross is an equilateral cross whose extended elements are of equal length,

and is never taken as a religious symbol. There are all kinds of crosses, but only one configuration is taken as the cross of the Christian religion: one in which the vertical leg is significantly longer than its horizontal arms.

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[Twilight Hue]

Bit of an overstatement don't you think?

v

No I don't think so.

 

[Willamena]

So what? It's not a religious cross with an extended vertical leg like that erected in Bladensburg, Maryland.

​

The National Silver Cross is an equilateral cross whose extended elements are of equal length,

and is never taken as a religious symbol. There are all kinds of crosses, but only one configuration is taken as the cross of the Christian religion: one in which the vertical leg is significantly longer than its horizontal arms.

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So what is the specifically Christian significance of the extended vertical leg?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Isn't Arlington Cemetary public land and aren't there crosses there? Are we next going to say that public cemateries cannot have crosses? Some of these arguements are just plain crazy. No one is being forced to believe in any religion just by seeing a cross on the street. What if there is a religion that uses a flower as a sacred symbol. Will we then have to stop having floweres along the street.

 

[74x12]

The US is the only country of the Western World that agrees on bringing down monuments....

First the war on statues in the South...now this

IMO concerted effort by our government. Designed to look like grassroots movement.

 

[Skwim]

So what is the specifically Christian significance of the extended vertical leg?

It's simply the way the cross Jesus was crucified on is depicted in art, and has hence become the accepted form.

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Isn't Arlington Cemetary public land and aren't there crosses there? Are we next going to say that public cemateries cannot have crosses? Some of these arguements are just plain crazy. No one is being forced to believe in any religion just by seeing a cross on the street. What if there is a religion that uses a flower as a sacred symbol. Will we then have to stop having floweres along the street.

"The Arlington Municipal Cemetery was formally plotted as "Harwood Cemetery" in 1903 and operated by a non-profit association. Adjoining property was purchased over the years and the Cemetery now encompasses 30 acres. The City of Arlington assumed ownership and operation in 1999. The Cemetery is self-supporting and does not rely on tax revenues for operation and maintenance."
source
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Additional information can be had through the "source" link.

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[Willamena]

It's simply the way the cross Jesus was crucified on is depicted in art, and has hence become the accepted form.

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"The Arlington Municipal Cemetery was formally plotted as "Harwood Cemetery" in 1903 and operated by a non-profit association. Adjoining property was purchased over the years and the Cemetery now encompasses 30 acres. The City of Arlington assumed ownership and operation in 1999. The Cemetery is self-supporting and does not rely on tax revenues for operation and maintenance."
source
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Additional information can be had through the "source" link.

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Well, I don't accept it. I'm an atheist. The cross was adopted by Christianity in the 4th Century. They don't own it, and I can find meaning and value in it secularly.

 

[wellwisher]

Phallic symbols are an important part of many Eastern religions, such as in the Hindu religion. Does that mean the Washington Monument must also go? Does that also mean that most sky scrapers in major American Cities need to be taken down, and that all future tall buildings need to use a new style of architecture to avoid the phallic shape of some religions? I can see an atheist city council getting it panties in a bunch when a new phallic shaped building is proposed. Or are atheists hypocrites bullies who only single out Christianity?

The atheists appear to be closet religious, who are on the wagon of denial, fighting a former addiction. It is sort of like a drunk who cannot be around any alcohol or even empty alcohol bottles our of fear of drinking again and going way overboard.

Not everyone is on the same edge as the reformed addict who has yet to complete the program.
Establishment of a religion is not as easy as setting up a statue or symbol.