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Scientists discover that water holds the DNA double helix together.

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Scientists have determined the water and not the hydrogen bonding between base pairs is what holds the DNA double helix together. This totally changes the way we should conceptually approach DNA. It also makes most textbook pictures of the DNA double helix obsolete, since these old picture ignore the water which is critical to the double helix structure. Those old pictures are now fake science. I have been warning this for years.

An overview of this provocative discovery can be read at the India Times at; DNA’s double helix is held together by water - Times of India

The actual published science paper can be found at; https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.1909122116

In simple terms, it was widely believed since the discovery of DNA, that the DNA double helix was held together by the hydrogen bonds between the base pairs within the DNA double helix. More recent discoveries showed that the DNA double helix was not the only double helix in DNA. The DNA also contained a double helix of water in the major and minor grooves of the double helix. This is in the article below from 2017, with the earliest clues in reference #3, dating back to 1992.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acscentsci.7b00229

The more recent team who overcame a dogma of science; earth is not flat, was able to show the base pairs are actually forced to stack onto each other, like coins, due to hydrophobic affects between the bases and the inner water. The affect is similar to mixing some oil into water. The oil will want to bead up to separate from the water and lower the surface tension.

In the case of the DNA, the base pairs are like oil and the inner water causes them to bead up and stack. This causes the beads of oil; stacked base pairs to become dry; pure oil, allowing the hydrogen bonding to become more efficient.. The hydrogen bonding is more of an affect of the hydrophobic action of the water, than the cause of the double helix.

Water has it finger in every pie within life. I hope the powers to be change the DNA pictures in textbooks so students can ask the right questions and not get stuck in misinformation based reasoning. But then again the double helix of water in DNA has been known since 1992 and if you mention it, you can get gang tackled or censored at science sites What is up with that? Why isn't that better known and taught?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Scientists have determined the water and not the hydrogen bonding between base pairs is what holds the DNA double helix together. This totally changes the way we should conceptually approach DNA. It also makes most textbook pictures of the DNA double helix obsolete, since these old picture ignore the water which is critical to the double helix structure. Those old pictures are now fake science. I have been warning this for years.

An overview of this provocative discovery can be read at the India Times at; DNA’s double helix is held together by water - Times of India

The actual published science paper can be found at; https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.1909122116

In simple terms, it was widely believed since the discovery of DNA, that the DNA double helix was held together by the hydrogen bonds between the base pairs within the DNA double helix. More recent discoveries showed that the DNA double helix was not the only double helix in DNA. The DNA also contained a double helix of water in the major and minor grooves of the double helix. This is in the article below from 2017, with the earliest clues in reference #3, dating back to 1992.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acscentsci.7b00229

The more recent team who overcame a dogma of science; earth is not flat, was able to show the base pairs are actually forced to stack onto each other, like coins, due to hydrophobic affects between the bases and the inner water. The affect is similar to mixing some oil into water. The oil will want to bead up to separate from the water and lower the surface tension.

In the case of the DNA, the base pairs are like oil and the inner water causes them to bead up and stack. This causes the beads of oil; stacked base pairs to become dry; pure oil, allowing the hydrogen bonding to become more efficient.. The hydrogen bonding is more of an affect of the hydrophobic action of the water, than the cause of the double helix.

Water has it finger in every pie within life. I hope the powers to be change the DNA pictures in textbooks so students can ask the right questions and not get stuck in misinformation based reasoning. But then again the double helix of water in DNA has been known since 1992 and if you mention it, you can get gang tackled or censored at science sites What is up with that? Why isn't that better known and taught?

That's science for ya, lets see how it pans out shall we?
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
That's science for ya, lets see how it pans out shall we?
Yeah, but to the religious-minded this means the previous models are "fake science", as if previous biochemists and geneticists were engaging in deliberate fraud. After all, they may end up altering their conclusions, and in the religious world such a thing is an indicator of a false prophet who claimed to be hearing from the gods but really wasn't (IOW, a fake).

All we're seeing here is the (mis)application of that religious mindset onto science.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Scientists have determined the water and not the hydrogen bonding between base pairs is what holds the DNA double helix together. This totally changes the way we should conceptually approach DNA. It also makes most textbook pictures of the DNA double helix obsolete, since these old picture ignore the water which is critical to the double helix structure. Those old pictures are now fake science. I have been warning this for years.

An overview of this provocative discovery can be read at the India Times at; DNA’s double helix is held together by water - Times of India

The actual published science paper can be found at; https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.1909122116

In simple terms, it was widely believed since the discovery of DNA, that the DNA double helix was held together by the hydrogen bonds between the base pairs within the DNA double helix. More recent discoveries showed that the DNA double helix was not the only double helix in DNA. The DNA also contained a double helix of water in the major and minor grooves of the double helix. This is in the article below from 2017, with the earliest clues in reference #3, dating back to 1992.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acscentsci.7b00229

The more recent team who overcame a dogma of science; earth is not flat, was able to show the base pairs are actually forced to stack onto each other, like coins, due to hydrophobic affects between the bases and the inner water. The affect is similar to mixing some oil into water. The oil will want to bead up to separate from the water and lower the surface tension.

In the case of the DNA, the base pairs are like oil and the inner water causes them to bead up and stack. This causes the beads of oil; stacked base pairs to become dry; pure oil, allowing the hydrogen bonding to become more efficient.. The hydrogen bonding is more of an affect of the hydrophobic action of the water, than the cause of the double helix.

Water has it finger in every pie within life. I hope the powers to be change the DNA pictures in textbooks so students can ask the right questions and not get stuck in misinformation based reasoning. But then again the double helix of water in DNA has been known since 1992 and if you mention it, you can get gang tackled or censored at science sites What is up with that? Why isn't that better known and taught?

Just when man thought they knew it all!!!!

Who knows? Maybe in time they will realize that God holds all things together?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Yeah, but to the religious-minded this means the previous models are "fake science", as if previous biochemists and geneticists were engaging in deliberate fraud. After all, they may end up altering their conclusions, and in the religious world such a thing is an indicator of a false prophet who claimed to be hearing from the gods but really wasn't (IOW, a fake).

All we're seeing here is the (mis)application of that religious mindset onto science.


What i find interesting is that they are not too anti science to avoid posting using the quantum mechanics of microprocessors after science found something more efficient than vacuum tubes
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
What i find interesting is that they are not too anti science to avoid posting using the quantum mechanics of microprocessors after science found something more efficient than vacuum tubes
My favorites are the creationists who insist "I love science", but of course with the caveat of "....and by "science" I mean only that which agrees with my religious beliefs". :D
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Yeah, but to the religious-minded this means the previous models are "fake science", as if previous biochemists and geneticists were engaging in deliberate fraud. After all, they may end up altering their conclusions, and in the religious world such a thing is an indicator of a false prophet who claimed to be hearing from the gods but really wasn't (IOW, a fake).

All we're seeing here is the (mis)application of that religious mindset onto science.
Not with me! I appreciate seeing scientific knowledge “update” itself.

The religious organization I’m affiliated with — Jehovah’s Witnesses — has been updating their understanding of Scriptural topics, since their inception back in the 1870’s when called the International Bible Students Association.
I’ve always appreciated their willingness to change their understanding.

(Your post applies to many others, though.)
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Yeah, but to the religious-minded this means the previous models are "fake science", as if previous biochemists and geneticists were engaging in deliberate fraud.


Just a thought, the Bible came after the Tanakh so the Tanakh must be a deliberate fraud.

And the Qur'an cam after the bible so the bible must be a deliberate fraud

And the Guru Granth Sahib was written after the Qur'an...

You know where im going with this ;-)

Or does that logic only apply to science?
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
Just a thought, the Bible came after the Tanakh so the Tanakh must be a deliberate fraud.

And the Qur'an cam after the bible so the bible must be a deliberate fraud

And the Guru Granth Sahib was written after the Qur'an...

You know where im going with this ;-)

Or does that logic only apply to science?
Oh wow, that's a fantastic point!

I guess since the Christian God went from crop/animal sacrifice to asking Jesus for forgiveness as the means to atone for sins, that means crop/animal sacrifice was "fake atonement"? Or maybe the God that instituted it was fake? Hmmmmmm......
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Scientists have determined the water and not the hydrogen bonding between base pairs is what holds the DNA double helix together. This totally changes the way we should conceptually approach DNA. It also makes most textbook pictures of the DNA double helix obsolete, since these old picture ignore the water which is critical to the double helix structure. Those old pictures are now fake science. I have been warning this for years.

An overview of this provocative discovery can be read at the India Times at; DNA’s double helix is held together by water - Times of India

The actual published science paper can be found at; https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.1909122116

In simple terms, it was widely believed since the discovery of DNA, that the DNA double helix was held together by the hydrogen bonds between the base pairs within the DNA double helix. More recent discoveries showed that the DNA double helix was not the only double helix in DNA. The DNA also contained a double helix of water in the major and minor grooves of the double helix. This is in the article below from 2017, with the earliest clues in reference #3, dating back to 1992.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acscentsci.7b00229

The more recent team who overcame a dogma of science; earth is not flat, was able to show the base pairs are actually forced to stack onto each other, like coins, due to hydrophobic affects between the bases and the inner water. The affect is similar to mixing some oil into water. The oil will want to bead up to separate from the water and lower the surface tension.

In the case of the DNA, the base pairs are like oil and the inner water causes them to bead up and stack. This causes the beads of oil; stacked base pairs to become dry; pure oil, allowing the hydrogen bonding to become more efficient.. The hydrogen bonding is more of an affect of the hydrophobic action of the water, than the cause of the double helix.

Water has it finger in every pie within life. I hope the powers to be change the DNA pictures in textbooks so students can ask the right questions and not get stuck in misinformation based reasoning. But then again the double helix of water in DNA has been known since 1992 and if you mention it, you can get gang tackled or censored at science sites What is up with that? Why isn't that better known and taught?
Sounds more like an attack on science than anything informative and informed by how science works. I mean damn, a bunch of stuff has changed since I was a kid but discovering ulcers are caused by bacteria and introducing plasma as a fourth state of matter doesn't make the previous stuff fake.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Scientists have determined the water and not the hydrogen bonding between base pairs is what holds the DNA double helix together.
Nope. They have found that the water assists the hydrogen bonding, or, more precisely, the hydrophobic nature of the phosphor-sugar backbone keeps the water from interfering with the hydrogen bonds and exerts thus a pressure on the bonds.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Scientists have determined the water and not the hydrogen bonding between base pairs is what holds the DNA double helix together. This totally changes the way we should conceptually approach DNA. It also makes most textbook pictures of the DNA double helix obsolete, since these old picture ignore the water which is critical to the double helix structure. Those old pictures are now fake science. I have been warning this for years.

An overview of this provocative discovery can be read at the India Times at; DNA’s double helix is held together by water - Times of India

The actual published science paper can be found at; https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.1909122116

In simple terms, it was widely believed since the discovery of DNA, that the DNA double helix was held together by the hydrogen bonds between the base pairs within the DNA double helix. More recent discoveries showed that the DNA double helix was not the only double helix in DNA. The DNA also contained a double helix of water in the major and minor grooves of the double helix. This is in the article below from 2017, with the earliest clues in reference #3, dating back to 1992.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acscentsci.7b00229

The more recent team who overcame a dogma of science; earth is not flat, was able to show the base pairs are actually forced to stack onto each other, like coins, due to hydrophobic affects between the bases and the inner water. The affect is similar to mixing some oil into water. The oil will want to bead up to separate from the water and lower the surface tension.

In the case of the DNA, the base pairs are like oil and the inner water causes them to bead up and stack. This causes the beads of oil; stacked base pairs to become dry; pure oil, allowing the hydrogen bonding to become more efficient.. The hydrogen bonding is more of an affect of the hydrophobic action of the water, than the cause of the double helix.

Water has it finger in every pie within life. I hope the powers to be change the DNA pictures in textbooks so students can ask the right questions and not get stuck in misinformation based reasoning. But then again the double helix of water in DNA has been known since 1992 and if you mention it, you can get gang tackled or censored at science sites What is up with that? Why isn't that better known and taught?
I don't get it. Water has 2 hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom.

How does this work if it isn't the hydrogen?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Nope. They have found that the water assists the hydrogen bonding, or, more precisely, the hydrophobic nature of the phosphor-sugar backbone keeps the water from interfering with the hydrogen bonds and exerts thus a pressure on the bonds.
Yep. Its called a Hydration shell. (Water sheath ) It's nothing new actually, and it has nothing to do with the actual bonding of DNA strands but rather characterizes the shape with stronger and weaker bonds with the sheath.

This was back in 2011.


Water molecules characterize the structure of DNA genetic material
 
Last edited:

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Maybe have you got any evidence for a gods existence that science can investigate?

All I have to do is look at the complexity of a human being and I know there is a God.

;)

:(

:confused:

Wait a minute... maybe there isn't one. "Beam me up Jesus, no intelligent life down here" :D
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
All I have to do is look at the complexity of a human being and I know there is a God.

;)

:(

:confused:

Wait a minute... maybe there isn't one. "Beam me up Jesus, no intelligent life down here" :D

Please write a paper on it in sure you will get a Nobel prize.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Just when man thought they knew it all!!!!

Who knows? Maybe in time they will realize that God holds all things together?
3 science successes....
- Men walking on the Moon.
- Telescopes seeing billions of years back in time to the early universe.
- A GPS that I can program by talking to it.

3 religious successes...
- Determining how many gods there are....well, not yet. (Hindus are winning so far.)
- Determining if God can make a burrito so hot he can't eat it...well, not yet.
- Really big hats.
 
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