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Featured "Scientism" on Wikipedia ...

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by PureX, Dec 2, 2021.

  1. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    "temporary equilibrium"? You are using standards of measuring economic systems and things that comprise interdependent variables of different speeds and so on. In linquistics there are methods for measuring the meaning of statements. He wanted a measurement of a statement as a scientific process. This is Linguistics and the sub-topic from this one post is long dead. Give it up.

    Linguistics is the scientific study of human language, meaning that it is a comprehensive, systematic, objective, and precise study of language. Linguistics encompasses the analysis of every aspect of language, as well as the methods for studying and modelling them.
     
  2. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    There are many types of measurements made in analysis of linguistics:

    Linguistics is the scientific study of human language, meaning that it is a comprehensive, systematic, objective, and precise study of language. Linguistics encompasses the analysis of every aspect of language, as well as the methods for studying and modelling them.

    The traditional areas of linguistic analysis include phonetics, phonology, morphology, syntax, semantics, and pragmatics. Each of these areas roughly corresponds to phenomena found in human linguistic systems: sounds (and gesture, in the case of signed languages), minimal units (phonemes, words, morphemes), phrases and sentences, and meaning and its use.

    Linguistics studies these phenomena in diverse ways and from various perspectives. Theoretical linguistics (including traditional descriptive linguistics) is concerned with building models of these systems, their parts (ontologies), and their combinatorics. Psycholinguistics builds theories of the processing and production of all these phenomena. These phenomena may be studied synchronically or diachronically (through history), in monolinguals or polyglots, in children or adults, as they are acquired or statically, as abstract objects or as embodied cognitive structures, using texts (corpora) or through experimental elicitation, by gathering data mechanically, through fieldwork, or through introspective judgment tasks. Computational linguistics implements theoretical constructs to parse or produce natural language or homologues. Neurolinguistics investigates linguistic phenomena by experiments on actual brain responses involving linguistic stimuli.

    Linguistics is related to philosophy of language, stylistics and rhetoric, semiotics, lexicography, and translation
     
  3. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    That philosophers are annoying.
     
  4. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    Science is the study of the natural world, so of course scientists will always stop short of considering supernatural phenomena; that would be beyond the remit of the discipline. But the lines between science and philosophy inevitably become blurred when we ask “what is real?” and “what exists?”
    Even more so when we ask the great imponderable, “why?”

    Referring to single polarised photon experiments, Paul Dirac said “questions about what decides whether the photon is to go through or not and how it changes it’s direction of polarisation…should be regarded as outside the domain of science.” He said that in 1935, but such questions have not remained outside the domain of science, have they?
     
  5. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    Philosophers won’t shut up and go away, simply because anyone who ever asked the questions “who am I and what am I here for?” is himself a philosopher.
     
  6. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    Science doesn't stop short of supernatural phenomena? There isn't any such thing? When someone can demonstrate it has a reality then a way to test it may come about.
    Classical EM evolved into quantum versions, QED, but if you have a photon and it has a behavior you cannot understand then the laws would want to be searched for? That isn't supernatural, it's just learning more about science and following leads.
     
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  7. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    That's great. People chasing you around on forums saying "but what is real?" isn't as great.
     
  8. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that is not an objective fact, or that the previous perspective of a geocentric earth was in any way a valid perspective?

    Do you think our perspective can closely match reality, or paradoxically not remotely match reality, and every stage in between?

    If I claim the earth is not flat, and a flat earther say it is, are you saying it is all a matter of perspective, or does one "perception" more closely match reality than the other?
     
  9. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but this is pure assumption, if anything beyond the physical world and universe ever offer anything for science to study they will of course do so.

    It is simply a fact that science cannot study what does not exist. Now if something exists, and there is nothing for science to study, then fine, but someone would need to demonstrate something beyond subjective claims, or anecdotal personal experience in order to demonstrate this to be the case. Else all unfalsifiable claims suddenly are on the table.
     
  10. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    Yes Sheldon, of course the Ptolemaic astronomical model was a perfectly valid perspective, for many centuries. It was confirmed by observation, and it worked fine until the point where it no longer served. Similarly, the Newtonian model of physics was valid and worked perfectly well until it too no longer served, and was superseded by general relativity and QM. The arrogance of the modern exceptionalist is to assume that our current models represent what you call ‘objective fact’. They don’t, they represent at best a working hypothesis, a best guess - objective fact must always be just out of reach of our subjective perceptions; there are no certainties, only degrees of probability.

    The flat earth model, on the other hand, never served, nor was it ever particularly convincing. Anyone who had been to sea, had caught a glimpse the dimensions of the globe. That’s basic stuff, even for the unimaginative and the literal minded.
     
  11. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    So you’re saying that no phenomenon can be considered to exist, unless or until science can identify and quantify it (which, of course, it can only ever do imperfectly, even within the limits of it’s own methodology)?

    That sounds exactly like scientism, as described at the top of this thread.
     
    #1391 RestlessSoul, Jan 15, 2022 at 6:04 AM
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022 at 6:22 AM
  12. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    The physical world is an illusion Sheldon, all that appears solid is in fact without definable substance. You have mistaken the illusion for the only true reality. This is the irony of your position.
     
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