Science vs Religion

[Scuba Pete]

The Kennedy assassination has never been "fully explained". Does that mean it did not happen?

There is a written eye witness account of the elongated day. How amazingly ethno-centric to dismiss it as evidence.

 

[scitsofreaky]

The Kennedy assassination has never been "fully explained". Does that mean it did not happen?

There is a written eye witness account of the elongated day. How amazingly ethno-centric to dismiss it as evidence.

I would like you to notice that there is only one account of something that would effect the entire world. But, with the JFK assassination, there are many accounts of what happened, and not all of it is just written, but only a fraction of the world saw it.
Also, the assassination being "fully explained" really depends. Someone shot him in the head with a gun, that we know. The rest are mere details.
I didn't say there was no evidence (although I do admit that the implication was there), but there is only one account of something that would have effected the entire world. Surely someone would have noticed, especially with so many civilizations that were interested in astronomy.
BTW, the elongation of a day would not have been the result of the sun stopping in the sky, as recorded in the bible, but by the earth ceasing to rotate on its axis.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I was wondering when someone would point out the obvious... the Earth had to stop spinning. Or did it? Still, most of those responding have been happy to refer to the "Sun stopping". It's a matter of perspective, eh?

But I think you got my point. Good job.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Deut,

How do you define "supernatural"?

An appeal to unevidenced special circumstances in abrogation of natural law employed by the gullible to justify their superstitions and/or delusions.

 

[samgeorge11]

Well,

I feel far better now that I have your permission! But then, my mind was never confused. You should refrain from ascribing such without much research. Talk about your "blind faith". You have demonstrated nothing but.

Research - maybe not more than you, but good enough to find mistakes(contradictiosn with science) in the Bibble you asked for. Not that I oppose everything in it but just hate people(missionaries and scholars) for their self satisfactory additions and modifications.

 

[Scuba Pete]

but just hate people(missionaries and scholars) for their self satisfactory additions and modifications.

Your hate is obvious. The reason for your hate is what I have issue with. I would suggest that most of the "glaring mistakes" have nothing to do with reality, but arise from our own ethno-centrism and inability to understand ancient texts.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Deut,

I find your definition to be self serving and intended only to couch "supernatural" in a truly negative light. Thanks for not answering the question to anyone's satisfaction but your own.

 

[meogi]

The Kennedy assassination has never been "fully explained". Does that mean it did not happen?

There is a written eye witness account of the elongated day. How amazingly ethno-centric to dismiss it as evidence.

The fact is Kenedy was assassinated. The 'full' explanation is Lee Harvy Oswold shot him. Conspiracy theories and the like are just that... conspiracies. They don't hold much sway with rational people. Kenedy assassination is not a miracle... you're still at a loss there (although nice diversion). And I don't dismiss it as evidence... it's just, all the evidence suggests otherwise. I tend to trust physical evidence more than human... human's have just been known to lie/decieve/be tricked/be ignorant too much.

I was wondering when someone would point out the obvious... the Earth had to stop spinning. Or did it? Still, most of those responding have been happy to refer to the "Sun stopping".

Earth had to stop or the sun had to start spinning around the earth. I don't know about you, but if the earth stopped today, I'd be in a bunch of pain... you know, from the whole loss of balance thing, loss of gravity, oh, not to mention getting thrown at 1,000mph and crushed. But it was a miracle I guess... care to expand on the bolded?

 

[Scuba Pete]

I don't know about you, but if the earth stopped today, I'd be in a bunch of pain..

Ah the wonders of miracles! If God did it that way, then you wouldn't feel a thing.

Or did it? care to expand on the bolded?

I don't know that I can. I doubt that the Isrealites had words for additional lights that gave the same light as the sun, so they used "sun". But like the Kennedy assination, I believe that SOMETHING miraculous happened as there is NOTHING to contradict the eyewitness evidence. I don't buy into the "conspiracy theories" that people who came way after the fact care to come up with.

 

[scitsofreaky]

I believe that SOMETHING miraculous happened as there is NOTHING to contradict the eyewitness evidence

The contradiction lies in the fact that there is no coroboration (hmm, spelling?) anywhere for an event that would have been noticed. It is like me saying that when I was sitting in my room alone I managed to turn invisible. By your logic, it must have happened because there is no evidence to contradict it.

 

[greatcalgarian]

NetDoc, the sun did stand still according to NASA:jam:

NASA & THE BIBLE
For all the scientists out there, and for all the students who have a hard time convincing these people regarding the truth of the Bible, here's something that shows God's awesome creation ... and that He is still in control.
Did you know that the space program is busy proving that what has been called "myth" in the Bible is true? Harold Hill, President of the Curtis Engine Company in Baltimore, Maryland, and a consultant in the space program, relates the following development. "I think one of the most amazing things that God has done for us today happened recently to our astronauts and space scientists at GreenBelt, Maryland. They were checking out where the positions of the sun, moon, and planets would be 100 years and 1,000 years from now.We have to know this so we won't send up a satellite and have it bump into something later on in its orbits. We have to lay out the orbits in terms of the life of the satellite and where the planets will be so the whole thing will not bog down. They ran the computer measurement back and forth over the centuries, and it came to a halt.The computer stopped and put up a red signal, which meant that there was something wrong with either the information fed into it or with the results as compared to the standards.They called in the service department to check it out, and they said, 'What's wrong?' Well, they found there is a day missing in space in elapsed time. They scratched their heads and tore their hair. There was no answer." Finally a Christianman on the team said, 'You know, one time I was in Sunday School, and they talked about the sun standing still.' While they didn't believe him, they didn't have an answer either, so they said, 'Show us.' He got a Bible and went to the book of Joshua where they found a pretty ridiculous statement for any one with common sense.' There they found the Lord saying toJoshua, 'Don't give them a second thought. I've put them under your thumb ... not one of them will stand up to you!' "Joshua was concerned because he was surrounded by the enemy, and if darkness fell, they would overpower them. So Joshua asked the Lord to make the sun stand still! That's right...'The sun stopped in its tracks in mid sky; just sat there all day. There's never been a day like that before or since ...' (Joshua 10:12-13) The astronauts and scientists said, 'There is the missing day!' They checked the computers going back into the time it was written and found it was close but not close enough. The elapsed time that was missing back in Joshua's day was 23 hours and 20minutes... not a whole day. "They read the Bible, and there it was 'about (approximately) a day.' These little words in the Bible are important, but they were still in trouble because if you cannot account for 40 minutes, you'll still be in trouble 1000 years from now. Forty minutes had to be found because it can be multiplied many times over in orbits. As the Christian employee thought about it, he remembered somewhere in the Bible where it said the sun went BACKWARDS. The scientists told him he was out of his mind, but they got out the Book and read these words in 2 Kings that told of the following story:Hezekiah, on his death bed, was visited by the prophet Isaiah who told him that he was not going to die.Hezekiah asked for a sign as proof. Isaiah said 'Do you want the sun to advance ten degrees on the sundial, or to go back ten degrees? You choose.' Hezekiah said, 'It would be easy to make the sun's shadow advance ten degrees. Make it go back ten degrees.' So Isaiah called out in prayer to God, and the Lord brought the shadow ten degrees BACKWARD! Ten degrees is exactly 40 minutes! Twenty-three hours and 20 minutes in Joshua, plus 40 minutes in Second Kings make the missing day in the universe!" Amazing? References: Joshua 10:8 and 12,13 and 2 Kings 20:9-11.Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.

My apology, this is actually a hoax:woohoo:
http://www.curtisengine.com/harold_hill.html

 

[Sunstone]

When faith depends on hoaxes, it's bankrupt.

 

[scitsofreaky]

That is funny great (you monkey )
What scares me is that there are "scientists" (as they like to call themselves) who (ab)use science to "prove" biblical myths. And I pity those who are convinced by the pseudoscientists and believe that because certain physical acts are "proven" to have happened everything in the bible is true, eventhough the physical assertions should not have any bearing on spiritual assertions.

 

[meogi]

The contradiction lies in the fact that there is no coroboration (hmm, spelling?) anywhere for an event that would have been noticed. It is like me saying that when I was sitting in my room alone I managed to turn invisible. By your logic, it must have happened because there is no evidence to contradict it.

I think by his logic, if someone witnessed you turn invisible, wrote it down, and then maybe let a few translations and changes in language over so many odd years obscure the 'actual' meaning... THEN it would warrant belief, because nothing contradicts it.

But like the Kennedy assination, I believe that SOMETHING miraculous happened as there is NOTHING to contradict the eyewitness evidence.

Nothing miraculous happened surrounding Kennedy... he was shot. End of story. Eyewitnesses can be confused, panicked, or my favorite, misinterpreting their accounts. I don't even know what eyewitness accounts you're talking about, but I really don't care (it'd be for another topic). I still don't see why you keep comparing his assassination to the 'sun stopping'.

Ah the wonders of miracles! If God did it that way, then you wouldn't feel a thing.

Well, you're right about that... except I'd probably be burning in hell and hurting there.

 

[Ahmadi]

Though certain aspects of science will oppose certain aspects of religion.

Those aspects of science that oppose certain aspects of religion are almost always theoretical and they will eventually be disproved.

Those aspects of certain religions that oppose science will eventually be proved wrong by other, more rational religions.

The world simply needs one relgion and which religion is more universal that Islam?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Those aspects of science that oppose certain aspects of religion are almost always theoretical and they will eventually be disproved.

Baseless drivel.

Those aspects of certain religions that oppose science will eventually be proved wrong by other, more rational religions.

Religions prove nothing.

The world simply needs one relgion and which religion is more universal that Islam?

That is a doubly stupid statement.

 

[Ahmadi]

Baseless drivel.

Religions prove nothing.

That is a doubly stupid statement.

When I said that a religion can prove/disprove something, it means that the religionus scripture (for example, the Quran) can be used to prove or disprove something. The Quran has a lot of rational arguments that can be used as a base for making scientific arguments. The religion of Islam has proved alot of things. Do some research and you can find out!

 

[Todd]

Baseless drivel.

Religions prove nothing.

That is a doubly stupid statement.

Don't think that is Baseless drivel. There are theories that are being proved and disproved whether religious or not every day in science. If you don't believe that theories can be proved and disproved, then you don't believe in science.

By the way, Ahmadi, welcome to the forum. Hope you enjoy the discussions out here. It can get rough sometimes though.

Todd

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Don't think that is Baseless drivel.

Don't presume that it isn't.

There are theories that are being proved and disproved whether religious or not every day in science.

Thanks for sharing. However, the fact the theories are being proved or disproved has nothing whatsoever to do with whether religion proves or disproves anything.

If you don't believe that theories can be proved and disproved, then you don't believe in science.

And if you insist on pummelling strawmen, then you don't believe in rational argument.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Then again, Todd, perhaps I was too harsh. Perhaps you could share with us an example of something being proved by religion. I'd be interested in its protocols.