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Science shall unite all people? What do you think?

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
I was very surprised to read this talk and would like to know how others view this talk by Abdul-Baha in America.

Science shall unite all people, making of all the nations, one country, and of all the earth, one homeland. All the religions shall be one, and science can reveal this reality.

I can only post some excerpts as it’s too large to post it all. But this should give readers some idea f the gist and they can read the link provided if they want to research further.

Science Shall Unite all People

Science can also unlock the secrets of the Holy Books: It uncovers the secret of reality. Science serves the world of reality. It can save man from the superstition of the religions of the past, revealing to him the reality of the religions of God.

Through the knowledge bestowed by science human beings can discover the secrets of the Universe.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
I was very surprised to read this talk and would like to know how others view this talk by Abdul-Baha in America.

Science shall unite all people, making of all the nations, one country, and of all the earth, one homeland. All the religions shall be one, and science can reveal this reality.

I can only post some excerpts as it’s too large to post it all. But this should give readers some idea f the gist and they can read the link provided if they want to research further.

Science Shall Unite all People

Science can also unlock the secrets of the Holy Books: It uncovers the secret of reality. Science serves the world of reality. It can save man from the superstition of the religions of the past, revealing to him the reality of the religions of God.

Through the knowledge bestowed by science human beings can discover the secrets of the Universe.


Hmmmm, interesting. Wonder why it hasn't already happened. Doesn't seem to be working for the naysayers of climate change.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I was very surprised to read this talk and would like to know how others view this talk by Abdul-Baha in America.

Science shall unite all people, making of all the nations, one country, and of all the earth, one homeland. All the religions shall be one, and science can reveal this reality.

I can only post some excerpts as it’s too large to post it all. But this should give readers some idea f the gist and they can read the link provided if they want to research further.

Science Shall Unite all People

Science can also unlock the secrets of the Holy Books: It uncovers the secret of reality. Science serves the world of reality. It can save man from the superstition of the religions of the past, revealing to him the reality of the religions of God.

Through the knowledge bestowed by science human beings can discover the secrets of the Universe.
When did science start being a political tool? It doesn't unite anything. All it does is confirm whether something is true or not.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Hmmmm, interesting. Wonder why it hasn't already happened. Doesn't seem to be working for the naysayers of climate change.

Well in a way scientific advancements have shrunk the world into virtually one country and as people from different walks of life are forced to mingle then a global ethic acceptable to all must emerge so that all can get along. Science has brought the diversity of the human family physically together.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
When did science start being a political tool? It doesn't unite anything. All it does is confirm whether something is true or not.

Science create the internet where the world interacts. A very substantial contribution to unity. Through the internet we learn about each other’s cultures.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I was very surprised to read this talk and would like to know how others view this talk by Abdul-Baha in America.

Science shall unite all people, making of all the nations, one country, and of all the earth, one homeland. All the religions shall be one, and science can reveal this reality.

I can only post some excerpts as it’s too large to post it all. But this should give readers some idea f the gist and they can read the link provided if they want to research further.

Science Shall Unite all People

Science can also unlock the secrets of the Holy Books: It uncovers the secret of reality. Science serves the world of reality. It can save man from the superstition of the religions of the past, revealing to him the reality of the religions of God.

Through the knowledge bestowed by science human beings can discover the secrets of the Universe.
Rather misguided, probably through lack of understanding of science. A few points:

- science cannot "unlock the secrets of the holy books", whatever they are supposed to be. The messages of the scriptures are religious or metaphysical and nothing to do with the study of nature through observation, which is what science is all about. To unlock the meaning and purpose of holy books one needs to study theology, literature and ancient history, with perhaps some anthropology (a "soft science") along the way.

- science makes models of aspects of the physical world, to enable us to predict its behaviour. Science makes no philosophical claims about "reality" - though it does, I think, tacitly assume there is an objective reality to model. So as far as uncovering "the secret of reality" (is there only one?), all it does is to remove veils, one might say, one by one. But we do not know how many veils there are: the number may be infinite. And for many purposes we choose to put some of the veils back, because it is easier to deal with the simpler approximations than the more unveiled version.

- science cannot, in any way whatsoever, "rend asunder" the laws of nature. The job of science is to find what we call "laws" in the observed patterns of behaviour of nature and make use of our resulting ability to predict nature's behaviour.

I can't see the context in which this speech was given. It looks like a respectful and well-intentioned attempt to make a bridge from religion to science, by someone who has not understood science very well and is perhaps too much in awe of it. It reinforces my conviction that clerics who talk about science often make asses of themselves, unless they do their homework first.
 
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exchemist

Veteran Member
Well in a way scientific advancements have shrunk the world into virtually one country and as people from different walks of life are forced to mingle then a global ethic acceptable to all must emerge so that all can get along. Science has brought the diversity of the human family physically together.
Yes, it is certainly true that technology, a product of science, has shrunk the world, making it easier to travel and communicate, uncovering common issues and common heritage. I'm not sure the rest follows, i.e. about one country and global ethics, but certainly it should make such convergence easier.
 
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loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Rather misguided, probably through lack of understanding of science. A few points:

- science cannot "unlock the secrets of the holy books", whatever they are supposed to be. The messages of the scriptures are religious or metaphysical and nothing to do with the study of nature through observation, which is what science is all about. To unlock the meaning and purpose of holy books one needs to study theology, literature and ancient history, with perhaps some anthropology (a "soft science") along the way.

- science makes models of aspects of the physical world, to enable us to predict its behaviour. Science makes no philosophical claims about "reality" - though it does, I think, tacitly assume there is an objective reality to model. So as far as uncovering "the secret of reality" (is there only one?), all it does is to remove veils, one might say, one by one. But we do not know how many veils there are: the number may be infinite. And for many purposes we choose to put some of the veils back, because it is easier to deal with the simpler approximations than the fully unveiled version.

- science cannot, in any way whatsoever, "rend asunder" the laws of nature. The job of science is to find what we call "laws" in the observed patters of behaviour of nature and make use of our resulting ability to predict nature's behaviour.

I can't see the context in which this speech was given. It looks like a respectful and well-intentioned attempt to make a bridge from religion to science, by someone who has not understood science very well and is perhaps too much in awe of it. It reinforces my conviction that clerics who talk about science often make asses of themselves, unless they do their homework first.


There are many irrational and superstitious interpretations of the Bible whichnif logic and reason we’re applied might remove a lot of the differences between religions.

Scientifically understood many scriptures could not be interpreted literally and make sense.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Science is just a form of knowledge. It can give us great power. Power to communicate, to travel, and to unite. But it also gives us the power to kill, to divide, and to separate.

Science alone cannot unify us. It alone cannot divide us. At most, it can give us the power to choose. We still need the wisdom to choose to do the right thing.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Science is just a form of knowledge. It can give us great power. Power to communicate, to travel, and to unite. But it also gives us the power to kill, to divide, and to separate.

Science alone cannot unify us. It alone cannot divide us. At most, it can give us the power to choose. We still need the wisdom to choose to do the right thing.

I agree with that because that’s how it’s been. Science has done wonders for humanity but also created evil things like atomic bombs. I believe science needs a moral compass to make sure it only invents what is good for us.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
I agree with that because that’s how it’s been. Science has done wonders for humanity but also created evil things like atomic bombs. I believe science needs a moral compass to make sure it only invents what is good for us.

I don't think that is possible. The power to do good almost always carries the power to do evil. Medicines can be used to poison, for example.

What we need isn't to add a moral compass to science. What we need is a moral compass for everyone.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
There are many irrational and superstitious interpretations of the Bible whichnif logic and reason we’re applied might remove a lot of the differences between religions.

Scientifically understood many scriptures could not be interpreted literally and make sense.
We don't need science to do that. The bible was not taken altogether literally as early as 200AD, by Origen. All one needs to do is read it with a brain and a classical education, as he did. The irony is that biblical literalism is largely a late c.19th invention - a time when science was making great strides, ironically.

It seems plausible that literalism may in fact have been a reactionary movement, against the disturbing new ideas about the world and man that science was spreading. I have not read this anywhere, but it does seem to fit. Some people react against uncomfortable news by doubling down on their original preconceptions - as we see all around us today.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
I was very surprised to read this talk and would like to know how others view this talk by Abdul-Baha in America.

Science shall unite all people, making of all the nations, one country, and of all the earth, one homeland. All the religions shall be one, and science can reveal this reality.

I can only post some excerpts as it’s too large to post it all. But this should give readers some idea f the gist and they can read the link provided if they want to research further.

Science Shall Unite all People

Science can also unlock the secrets of the Holy Books: It uncovers the secret of reality. Science serves the world of reality. It can save man from the superstition of the religions of the past, revealing to him the reality of the religions of God.

Through the knowledge bestowed by science human beings can discover the secrets of the Universe.

Fantasy, nothing more.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I was very surprised to read this talk and would like to know how others view this talk by Abdul-Baha in America.

Science shall unite all people, making of all the nations, one country, and of all the earth, one homeland. All the religions shall be one, and science can reveal this reality.

I can only post some excerpts as it’s too large to post it all. But this should give readers some idea f the gist and they can read the link provided if they want to research further.

Science Shall Unite all People

Science can also unlock the secrets of the Holy Books: It uncovers the secret of reality. Science serves the world of reality. It can save man from the superstition of the religions of the past, revealing to him the reality of the religions of God.

Through the knowledge bestowed by science human beings can discover the secrets of the Universe.
I think Bahaullah like every human has made a choice of belief.
The one he has chosen evidently, is not the one Jesus taught, and advised us to follow, because Jesus said, the ruler of this world is coming, and has no hold on him. Jesus says, he has conquer the world, and those who follow him, will be conquerors also.

So those who are looking for the world to unite are in for a surprise, as Jesus said it will be conquered, and in more ways than one. Not only will the righteous be victorious in keeping integrity in the world, while remaining no part of it, but Jesus, as king of kings, and lord of lords - the conquering lion of the tribe of Judah... he will remove all existing things, in opposition to the kingdom of God.
Only then will the world unite, but this will be accomplished through the kingdom of God... nothing else. (Revelation 17:12-14)
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
I don't think that is possible. The power to do good almost always carries the power to do evil. Medicines can be used to poison, for example.

What we need isn't to add a moral compass to science. What we need is a moral compass for everyone.

Well, unless you are a sociopath that common moral compass is empathy. It is a quality that is virtually universal. We humans even have empathy for creatures that are not human.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I was very surprised to read this talk and would like to know how others view this talk by Abdul-Baha in America.

Science shall unite all people, making of all the nations, one country, and of all the earth, one homeland. All the religions shall be one, and science can reveal this reality.

I can only post some excerpts as it’s too large to post it all. But this should give readers some idea f the gist and they can read the link provided if they want to research further.

Science Shall Unite all People

Science can also unlock the secrets of the Holy Books: It uncovers the secret of reality. Science serves the world of reality. It can save man from the superstition of the religions of the past, revealing to him the reality of the religions of God.

Through the knowledge bestowed by science human beings can discover the secrets of the Universe.
The Bahai Faith was originated in the second half of the 19th century, which was a time of great efervescence and shock from the confrontation between the wider awareness of scientific findings and of religious beliefs worldwide.

Roughly the same time period gave us an impressive array of other ambitious, innovative, daring doctrines that might well have been unworkable before that development, if for no other reason because there simply wasn't enough awareness of other world doctrines. Many of those, including the Bahai Faith, had some form or another of attempts at being all-encompassing or, perhaps more often, all-explaining. It was the time of the Golden Dawn, of Allan Kardec, of H.P. Blavatsky.

From where I stand, most or perhaps all of those movements were largely motivated by the desire to appease a deep disconfort that came with the realization that then-current views and models were simply not very good at explaining the actual variety of stances and beliefs worldwide. Perhaps unavoidably, an urge arose to supplement those views so that they could resume their role of providing safe, reliable explanations of how the world was and how we should deal with it.

One of the manifestations of that urge was, indeed, a sense of urgency - a craving for quick answers to restore the confort of understanding how things were. Some of that craving channeled itself into renewed reverence and greater expectations towards science and the people who were perceived to speak with its authority.

Things are, of course, very different now. There are many reasons why, but I think that it is fairly enlightening to focus on the cultural shock and grim realization that came worldwide during roughly the time of World War I. The time period of Abdul Baha's role in the Bahai Faith was roughly 1892-1921, if I am not mistaken, and coincided well with that period.

World War I was noteworthy, among other reasons, for how deeeply deluded the participating nations were about their own abilities and the reach of their destructive power. I find it illustrative that it was the first conflict to seriously indicate to the British how outdated their proud Cavalry was in the time of widespread, long-range military firearms. It was a series of bitter, bloody frustrations to all people involved, as semester after semester followed with ever grimmer degregation of everyone's dignity and hope. It was the conflict that taught people very sharply that war was not something to look forward to.

I happen to believe that a big part of it was that World War I was made possible by a cultural environment that sort of assumed that everyone was destined to greater reach, greater prosperity, greater renown, and changed that environment something fierce, as so many promises made or implied by so many leaders turned to literal dust and smoke. Overall optimism, however naive, was certainly among the victims of that conflict. And it was a conflict that involved a lot indeed of evidence that science can be used for destructive ends, and that political leaders should not always be trusted. That has been a recurring situation since.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Well in a way scientific advancements have shrunk the world into virtually one country and as people from different walks of life are forced to mingle then a global ethic acceptable to all must emerge so that all can get along. Science has brought the diversity of the human family physically together.

you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
 
Roughly the same time period gave us an impressive array of other ambitious, innovative, daring doctrines that might well have been unworkable before that development, if for no other reason because there simply wasn't enough awareness of other world doctrines. Many of those, including the Bahai Faith, had some form or another of attempts at being all-encompassing or, perhaps more often, all-explaining. It was the time of the Golden Dawn, of Allan Kardec, of H.P. Blavatsky.

The motto on your country's flag 'order and progress' is inspired by Auguste Comte's 19th C Religion of Humanity is it not?

486px-Flag_of_Brazil.svg.png
 
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