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Science says Opening schools doesn't affect rates

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
They have traced in th USA transmission of asymptomatic children to families; ie the Mayor of Atlanta and her family.

Sweden has been terribly wrong about the pandemic in the past.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
If they want to keep schools closed they had better come up with a workable alternative. Homeschooling fine but they ought to take the money from the public schools and give it to the parents who now have to stay home to support their children's education.
Agreed.... you have to empower the parents
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
They have traced in th USA transmission of asymptomatic children to families; ie the Mayor of Atlanta and her family.

Sweden has been terribly wrong about the pandemic in the past.
My understanding is that science is verifying it in multiple countries.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Sweden's health agency says open schools did not spur pandemic spread among children

Apparently, not only do they not transmit, but they aren't affected

(obviously there are cases that are exceptions)

A close Swedish friend of mine is back there on holidays at the moment, and has not been particularly praiseworthy about their COVID situation.
(Currently resides in the Middle East)

It also runs contrary to some of what we have seen here in Australia. Kids don't seem to transmit it as readily as adults, and don't seem to get sick from it, but there are adults at schools, and schools have become clusters on multiple occasions here.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
A close Swedish friend of mine is back there on holidays at the moment, and has not been particularly praiseworthy about their COVID situation.
(Currently resides in the Middle East)

It also runs contrary to some of what we have seen here in Australia. Kids don't seem to transmit it as readily as adults, and don't seem to get sick from it, but there are adults at schools, and schools have become clusters on multiple occasions here.
Contradiction bolded.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Contradiction bolded.

Errr...I don't think I contradicted myself, if that's what you meant.
I think I may have explained myself poorly, so let me extrapolate somewhat.

We've had multiple occasions here in Australia where schools have become clusters/hotspots. These might be somewhat informative on this issue, so let me speak specifically to a couple.

Al-Taqwa College became a hotspot of approx. 90, which is huge for us, particularly at the time it happened. There was at least two large scale familial gatherings which flouted restrictions, and as a result COVID was taken to the school. The students who have been infected, and who have spread the virus are almost (maybe completely...not sure) older students, who have basically been almost adult-like in terms of their level of infection, etc. They appeared to be ignoring social distancing entirely, perhaps under some mistaken assumption that they couldn't get sick. Not sure on the last.

Albanvale Primary School was a smaller hotspot (maybe 15 cases) where the initial presentation was a teacher, and then a further two teachers. This is the type of thing I was alluding to in my original post. Parents and other adults gathering at schools have become transmission points in the same way any other large gathering could be. We have in place staggered finishing times, etc, but you get several hundred parents transitioning through an area in a 30 minute span, adult to adult infection seems a risk EVEN IF kids couldn't transmit.
On this hotspot in particular though, there was also evidence of student to student transmission (asymptomatic) and these were obviously younger kids (12 and under).

St Monica's College also had teacher transmission and older student cases (15+ years of age as far as I am aware)

Camberwell Grammar School also had teacher cases, and a single student case (not sure on age)

And Parkwood Green Primary School had a single student case (again under 12)

In summary, my point was as follows;
  • Kids seem less likely to get it than adults (but can still get it)
  • Schools aren't just gatherings of kids. There are a lot of adults, and by nature there is a transitory element to their interactions which can spread COVID
  • 'Kids' being less susceptible is horribly inaccurate. Is a 15 or 16 year old more child-like or adult-like in terms of the virus? Or somewhere in the middle?
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
If they want to keep schools closed they had better come up with a workable alternative. Homeschooling fine but they ought to take the money from the public schools and give it to the parents who now have to stay home to support their children's education.
I think this is a GREAT opportunity to redo the public schools using certifications rather than yearly grades. Students should not be graded on their ability to learn fast. They should be graded on what they learn and can use.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
yes as per video - iceland, Canada, Germany, Sweden and others
I don't know about the other countries but in Germany the schools may be open but it's far from education as usual. It's up to the schools and many have chosen to open to half capacity (one day presence schooling for half the students, the other day home schooling / remote schooling). Also when numbers go up in the county it's back to lock down again. Same goes for just a single suspicious case.
As for Iceland, I don't know how they handle schooling but they have 14 known cases on the whole island (and while restrictions are relaxed, they aren't all abandoned yet).
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Have any sources other than Fox News?


Does this mean you've stopped denying evolution and climate change?
It isn't Fox News... it is what the good doctor is saying. Stick to the science
 
Last edited:

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
Sweden's health agency says open schools did not spur pandemic spread among children

Apparently, not only do they not transmit, but they aren't affected

(obviously there are cases that are exceptions)
First off @KenS you shouldn’t say things like “Science says....”, since it immediately shows that you don’t understand science. This is a single epidemiological study in Sweden, not some kind of international consensus of all scientists in every field of research everywhere.
Which segues into the fact that this is one study and as such would need to be verified, especially concerning Methods & Means utilized.
This article ( How Sweden wasted a ‘rare opportunity’ to study coronavirus in schools ), written 2 months ago suggests that there are likely multiple flaws foreseen all that time back before your linked Swedish publication.
Here, and in regards to @lewisnotmiller discussion below, there is a common very significant step that seems to have been left out of the equations used for tracking the statistical significance of this research.
The Denominator.
Even the authoring researchers admit that actual antigen testing for the virus was only conducted on people who became ill. :rolleyes: Since the children usually do not become significantly ill, they were not tested, at least not to the degree that the adults were, because the adults became ill.
Antibody testing to see who has already experienced the infection is going to be critical in seeing exactly how many of these children actually were infected and therefore were acting as carriers of the SARS CoV-2. That will give us the actual denominator in these equations. Judging by symptoms is a fool’s errand.
Antibody testing (especially on any large scale) is now just coming onto the scene. So final conclusions of any statistical significance, as well as our own conjecture on them here in this forum, is premature at best.

Errr...I don't think I contradicted myself, if that's what you meant.
I think I may have explained myself poorly, so let me extrapolate somewhat.

We've had multiple occasions here in Australia where schools have become clusters/hotspots. These might be somewhat informative on this issue, so let me speak specifically to a couple.

Al-Taqwa College became a hotspot of approx. 90, which is huge for us, particularly at the time it happened. There was at least two large scale familial gatherings which flouted restrictions, and as a result COVID was taken to the school. The students who have been infected, and who have spread the virus are almost (maybe completely...not sure) older students, who have basically been almost adult-like in terms of their level of infection, etc. They appeared to be ignoring social distancing entirely, perhaps under some mistaken assumption that they couldn't get sick. Not sure on the last.

Albanvale Primary School was a smaller hotspot (maybe 15 cases) where the initial presentation was a teacher, and then a further two teachers. This is the type of thing I was alluding to in my original post. Parents and other adults gathering at schools have become transmission points in the same way any other large gathering could be. We have in place staggered finishing times, etc, but you get several hundred parents transitioning through an area in a 30 minute span, adult to adult infection seems a risk EVEN IF kids couldn't transmit.
On this hotspot in particular though, there was also evidence of student to student transmission (asymptomatic) and these were obviously younger kids (12 and under).

St Monica's College also had teacher transmission and older student cases (15+ years of age as far as I am aware)

Camberwell Grammar School also had teacher cases, and a single student case (not sure on age)

And Parkwood Green Primary School had a single student case (again under 12)

In summary, my point was as follows;
  • Kids seem less likely to get it than adults (but can still get it)
  • Schools aren't just gatherings of kids. There are a lot of adults, and by nature there is a transitory element to their interactions which can spread COVID
  • 'Kids' being less susceptible is horribly inaccurate. Is a 15 or 16 year old more child-like or adult-like in terms of the virus? Or somewhere in the middle?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I don't know about the other countries but in Germany the schools may be open but it's far from education as usual. It's up to the schools and many have chosen to open to half capacity (one day presence schooling for half the students, the other day home schooling / remote schooling). Also when numbers go up in the county it's back to lock down again. Same goes for just a single suspicious case.
As for Iceland, I don't know how they handle schooling but they have 14 known cases on the whole island (and while restrictions are relaxed, they aren't all abandoned yet).
The point is that although children do get it, they aren't affected by it
 
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