Sorry, I disagree with that.
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Science or faith
- Thread starter We Never Know
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Sorry, I disagree with that.
Understood -- but you're disagreement is unfounded. The facts argue against it.
Please give one fact that is against it?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It's not even remotely logical, plus many theologians believe the Flood narrative was not history nor science but was to refute Babylonian polytheistic teachings that came earlier and were much more widespread.
STOP IT!
The evidence is too voluminous to post here. I'd have to write a book.
I've posted these informative and user-friendly videos thrice now, write a book.I've posted these informative and user-friendly videos thrice now, and referenced them more than that, so don't pretend you're unaware of them. So stop asking questions that have already been answered. If you refuse to hear the answers, why even post in threads like this?
Nine videos each giving a dozen or more answers to your question, answered more clearly than I could:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=aron+ra+and+flood+series
Sorry, I have not enough time to watch them and I don't believe they are worth watching. I don't ask you to give all evidence. I ask just one fact against the flood. If you know one, please tell it. It shouldn't be too difficult, if you know one. However, I don't believe you know any fact against it, because, I don't think you even understand how the flood happened. Can't have a fact against something you don't even understand properly. But, maybe you are lucky and have randomly come up with something good. It would be nice to know it. IF you can give one, it could lead this debate so that we could all learn something.
Sorry, such beliefs have no value in this for me. Many theologians allegedly believe in God, does that mean you believe them in that?
I think world has enough evidence for the Biblical flood story.
Heyo
Veteran Member
I just read @Evangelicalhumanist's thread about the Dunning-Kruger effect. Very appropriate.
What about the fact that there is no firmament?
Have I ever invited you to my thread Why the Theory of Evolution is True. Part 1: What is Science??
You could learn what science is and I can learn how to teach science to someone who is indoctrinated against understanding it.
None so blind as those who will not see.
You're not really interested in the facts, and would reject them even if you were made aware of them. Your opinion is fixed, and facts are a potential threat. Would my listing objections be any different from learning them from an article, video or lecture? I think not.
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Yes. After all my posts that you're seen from me, why would you even ask that?
There is 0 evidence for a worldwide flood.
IMO, the likely main point of the Flood narrative was to refute the earlier, more widespread, and polytheistic Babylonian flood narrative. Thus, taking the Flood narrative at the literal level is illogical as it makes no sense based on what we now know through science.
Only if you don't understand how it happened and what would be the evidence. When you understand, you know that for example, oil, gas and coal, orogenic mountains, current continents, marine fossils on high mountain areas,... ...are evidence.
I think that is a silly claim after I just asked one fact. Now that I didn't get it, I have to assume no fact against the great flood exists.
By what I have understood, firmament means atmosphere. I believe it exists and I don't know any fact against it.
And God called the firmament Heaven*. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen. 1:8
*the sky, atmosphere, etc.
https://raamattu.uskonkirjat.net/servlet/biblesite.Bible?lex=BDB&ref=1.+Moos.+1:1&ent=08064
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Even though I'm not a geologist [I'm a retired anthropologist], I well know what some of the research on this long and overwhelmingly concluded: 0 evidence for a worldwide flood.
All this has been scientifically studied and explained as there's really no great mystery about any of them. For example, it is Earth teutoncs that causes mountains, thus any fossils laid early on will show up much higher on them.
Heyo
Veteran Member
"And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so." Gen. 1:7
There is water above the atmosphere? You just need to read one previous sentence to see that the atmosphere can't be the firmament. Besides, the atmosphere isn't very "firm" (except when you hit it at the right angle with high velocity).
I have a feeling that you don't know how the flood supposedly happened according to the bible.
Yes, they are evidence against it, as you'd know if you'd try looking at evidence from somewhere other than Answers in Genesis.
Why is there no stratigraphic evidence of the flood? Where did all the water come from? Where did it drain? How did Noah and his menagerie survive the >6,400 degree atmospheric temperatures that the latent heat of condensation would have generated to create enough rain to cover high mountains? How were all the world's animals assembled, and how did they find their way back where they came from? How did they survive after the flood killed off the microbiomes that permit life on Earth? How did trees, corals and human settlements survive right through the period claimed for the flood? How did Noah feed and house so many animals, with such a small staff and no suppliers? Even a small modern zoo requires a considerable workforce.
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The great flood was a vast event that carried lot of material. It had different phases when water flooded and rained and later its level decreased to glaciers and when the drowned material was compressed more. Stratigraphic evidence is for example the oil, gas and coal that was buried organic material.
Bible tells it came when the "fountains of great deep" were burst open. there was only one continent at the beginning and bellow it there was a vast water reservoir. When the flood came, the original continent was broken, collapsed and sunk. That caused heavy rain and also flooding.
Here you can find images that show the principle. I know they are not very good, but I hope you can understand the point.
Are you a disciple of Jesus?
The water level has decreased, because drowned material has been compressed more and also because lot of it is in glaciers. Amount of water is the same, only the level of ocean floors has come down, which makes it look like dry land is rising.
No intelligent reason to assume that temperature, when you understand correctly how it happened.
Bible tells animals came to Noah on their own.
went by pairs to Noah into the ark, male and female, as God commanded Noah.
Gen. 7:9
Remember, at that point there was only single continent. And, I would assume there was for example single kind of bears and all modern bears are offspring of those. Similarly as there was single kind of humans and now we have millions of different looking humans. This means, I count for example all bears to be same species.
And how did they spread after the flood. After the flood, there was the ice age, climate cooled because of the heavy rain and clouds. That is why the water level decreased so that it was possible to travel to far distances, which I assume happened gradually as the animals multiplied.
No good reason to assume such thing happened.
Trees can survive as seeds or roots underground. Corals could have been in slightly different area, depending on the level of the ocean. And humans survived as told in the Bible.
I would assume the ark was built as shown in the plans here:
Noah's Ark
I think that would be the best design in such situation. And I think there was about 4200 animals in the ark (as calculated i the link above). Bible doesn't tell accurately how it was handled, but if I would have to do it, I would do the ark as in the plans, place the food in the rooms that are higher levels, because there they remain dry and it is also possible to have it work almost like automatic feeding system. With that structure there could be separate drinking area and on the edges area for waste.
Most animals can eat by themselves, if there is food. Many animals could have been not yet fully grown when they went to ark and many animals procreate so fast that some of them could have been food for others. Also, I think eating fish could have been possible.
That is how i understand it. And it leads to interesting question, could space be actually water. Maybe it was in the beginning so, difficult to know. This would be evidence for space ocean theory:
“Sea plankton found on the outer surface of the ISS”
https://www.cnet.com/news/sea-plankton-found-on-the-outer-surface-of-the-iss/
Here is how I understand it:
Are you a disciple of Jesus?
Yeah, I know the explanations. I think the official plate tectonics theory is not good, because it really can't offer any realistic force that would raise for example Himalaya. It shows that it does not understand the forces needed for that (F=mg). For example continental crust is much more heavier than oceanic crust, for example in mountain areas. There would be a great force pulling that thicker crust into same level with surrounding crust. The official theory can't really show any force that would be able to counter the weight of mountains.